OBEY THE EBAY POLICY (Flippers)

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Patillac13
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Re: Re:

Post by Patillac13 »

nadajohn wrote:But Shep says he doesn't mind if people 'archive' a print for a couple months then flip.

When I read the policy post on OG, I didn't get that vibe at all. I think it's all about the peoples intention. If I buy just to sell for instant profit, I wouldn't think I'd be a cherished part of the Obey sale cycle. But if I hop on to the Obey site and the new print is up (but I don't like it), and I order it for trade to get an Obey print that I want, but missed. I don't see a problem with that. I think the line is drawn depending on if you use new prints to profit from an artist that is still trying to keeping print costs low or if you use them to either hold in your collection, or grow your collection. I don't think he'd like it if someone bought up all of the prints they could, then sat on them until the heat died down for each print, then sold them (that is pretty much the same thing as the quick flip). I don't know, I think it all boils down to each persons intention... I might be off on all of this, but that how I interpret the situation.
Shepard Fairey wrote:There are people who will cherish a reasonably priced piece of my art and they are my priority.

I think that quote says it all. He's pushing to keep the people who like/cherish/collect his work a priority.
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Re: Re:

Post by djsp »

Patillac13 wrote:I think that quote says it all. He's pushing to keep the people who like/cherish/collect his work a priority.


I hear what you are saying, and this is far from a black and white issue, but who defines cherishing? Is selling them worse than hording?
Just go back to this topic that you started: Collections
How many portfolios are involved in these collections. Are we "cherishing" prints that are not on the wall? Prints that no one will see if we do not flip open a portfolio to show them, or have to sell because I am "trying to put together money to buy one of my grain prints"?
For arguments sake, is it not safe to say that someone who is willing to buy a print for a premium might cherish it more than those of us who buy it at face and put it into a portfolio?
Just playing :twisted: advocate.
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Re: Re:

Post by toyroom »

djsp wrote:
Patillac13 wrote:I think that quote says it all. He's pushing to keep the people who like/cherish/collect his work a priority.


I hear what you are saying, and this is far from a black and white issue, but who defines cherishing? Is selling them worse than hording?
Just go back to this topic that you started: Collections
How many portfolios are involved in these collections. Are we "cherishing" prints that are not on the wall? Prints that no one will see if we do not flip open a portfolio to show them, or have to sell because I am "trying to put together money to buy one of my grain prints"?
For arguments sake, is it not safe to say that someone who is willing to buy a print for a premium might cherish it more than those of us who buy it at face and put it into a portfolio?
Just playing :twisted: advocate.


I understand both arguments here, but we are all very different and what motivates us to do certain things is individual. As far as my personal collection, I guess I hoard. I keep all but one print in portfolios, I hoard though for my own personal enjoyment. I don't show them, they're not on EB, they're not for sale, nobody except for a few has even seen my collection, and I don't buy to hang simply because I don't live in a large enough place. I cherish all of them (at least for now) otherwise I'd part with them to buy some more fine art.

So for me, I don't think they have to be public, nor do I think they need to be worth a grip to be cherished.

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Re: Re:

Post by djsp »

toyroom wrote:I understand both arguments here, but we are all very different and what motivates us to do certain things is individual. As far as my personal collection, I guess I hoard.


Ha. There is no guessing there, I will verify, you hoard. :lol: I agree with you totally. I wish I had somewhere to put everything. Like I said before, just playing devil's advocate. I fall into, the much smaller, hoarder category. I can't help it, it makes me happy. :D
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Post by PDC »

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and like all of us, Shepard Fairey has his
own interpretation of what a flipper is. His definition is based on the true meaning
of the word... buy to immediately resell for profit, just like a house. Often preying
on people's emotions.
Agree or disagree? So what? He's entitled to his opinion and policy.

My only disagreement is that he says "ebayers" are not welcome. I may be interpreting
this wrong but to me that means, "if you buy from a flipper, then you are part of the problem...
or you are not welcome".
Personally, I get paid by the hour and don't have a lot of spare time to put up with the server bullsh*t
for a popular print that will be on sale for 3 days, so purchasing a print on ebay is often more
economical for me.
Last edited by PDC on Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by nadajohn »

Here's one of my main problems. Shep seems to be saying it's ok to sell/flip/parlay etc. after a couple months especially if someone's putting to profits made into a better/more expensive piece of art. Ok. But he then went on to assume that EVERYONE who flips before they get a print in hand was only doing it for cash. But what if someone flipped right away because he was intending to use the money to buy a more expensive Obey print or artwork? But Shep has ruled out that possibility and issued a blanket policy banning the under-two-month flippers because he assumed (wrongly) someone flips quick just to make money. It's a free country, so he can do as he wishes, but his Ebay Policy striked me as a bit overreaching which I felt was contradictory to his Obey Giant campaign.
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Post by whyhoo »

its nice to hear the policies again... but what about making the whole purchase flow a little more robust?

just sayin... the problems we all have are easily solved. i'll happily consult for free!

:mrgreen:
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Post by saintjordan »

I agree with whyhoo... They make the process beyond difficult and dont expect any complaints or inquiries?
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Re:

Post by Patillac13 »

saintjordan wrote:They make the process beyond difficult and dont expect any complaints or inquiries?

I'm sure they would note your complaints and/or inquiries... by email. It's probably much easier to work with hundreds of emails versus hundreds of phone calls (The few times I've sent emails to Obey or Subliminal Projects they were returned within a day or two, when I called 'em they referred me to an email address, and it went smoothly). I think that's all they're saying (I could be wrong). I definitely agree that it's a bummer to try all day (even multiple days) for a print and have it keep getting pushed back, but I don't know anything about the technical aspect of what happens if there are hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of hits on a website's store within a given amount of time.

The last two Obey pieces I bought direct were Obama 24x36 Progress and The Little Kids Big Kids Book/cover... there's been many many prints that I've tried for and missed out on in between those two things... but that's part of the excitement (definitely the most aggravating part, but it's still part of it).
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Re: A note from Obey customer service

Post by noetic »

*edit*
my comment doesn't really make sense in this thread..
Last edited by noetic on Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by slidingaround »

Wonder what there few are for people trading early! Or is it just people flippin for cash?
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Post by Raggadrop »

They haven't actually spent the "increased print price funds" on improvements to the system? If they have, this will be the last release for me.
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Post by HolyShep »

So, what are you guys gonna do about the people who got multiple orders? Are you gonna relist the duplicates on the OG site? I think it's only fair to those of us that spent 13 HOURS online waiting only to get shafted. Oh, and one is already up on Ebay, I hope you're gonna follow through with your threats!
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Post by Bobak »

Your online store, in its current (often crippled) state, discourages legitimate fans from purchasing prints because --as we're not profiting from them-- we run out of time to spend (family, work, etc). The system's flaws reward those who have incentive to sit around a site all day, which would appear (from eBay and 2ndary markets) to be the very flippers you're/we're all frustrated with. The current situation risks alienating and frustrating your loyal fans. Please, on behalf of all of is, explore a new method of moving forward or make the repairs to the current system.
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Post by HolyShep »

Bobak, well said, obviously you have a cooler head than me right now. Thanks for speaking on behalf of the "loyal fans"
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Re: A note from Obey customer service

Post by Backpackpunk »

I think everyone here who is complaining about the website needs to cool down and think rationally for a second.

A. What is the incentive for Shepard Fairey / Obey Giant to improve their servers? He has a large loyal following of fans who, in my opinion, he treats very well. He is one of the very few artists who knows he can receive much more for his work then he does, but yet he keeps the price lower for his many fans who can't afford to pay the price that Faile, banksy, dface, Nick Walker, or many other artists have started to charge. If you are paying $200.00-$300.00 a print I sure the server would work great, but we are not we are paying $50.00 (now at least) for a print that is worth at least double most times what it could easily sell for. Shepard Fairey has left his price low for us, the one thing we can at least do is not complain about it.

B. As far as his stance on flippers, before he puts the prints up for sale they are his property, and thus he can do what he wishes, and choose to sell to whom he wishes. Does it seem maybe a little hypocritical, possibly, if you choose to look at it that way, the way I choose to view it is that he knows he has a large fan base of people who want his prints to enjoy, whither that means on a wall or or in their portfolio collection and is trying to do his best to protect those people from paying higher prices then they should for his work. By banning "flippers" it opens up a larger pool of prints to the collectors, even if its only 10-20 more prints that 10-20 more people who possibly contribute to this board to have a shot at getting a piece of art they would appreciate. Shepard's solution isn't the best in my opinion but it at least is a start, a start to put more prints in the hands of his very large and ever growing fan base.

Normally I wouldn't go off on a rant like this except over the last 2 months it seems that people are getting more and more nasty on here about the print drops. Last year around this time when sunsets was dropping it was just as bad, a few months before that when War By Numbers and Peace Goddess were dropping it was just as bad, and that horrible day when atrack dropped it was just as bad. We as a group of collectors have been going through this process for over 18 months now you would think that we would understand that this is how the system is going to work.
People need to understand bandwidth is a monthly/yearly issue, paying 10.00 extra for one print isn't going to solve the website issue, paying 20-30 per print each week will and I know many of the people on here are not willing/can't pay that extra money.
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Re: A note from Obey customer service

Post by Bonesy »

No complaining here, just a suggestion. If your online system is going to stay inadequate then please make drop times completely random. Dropping a print in the last hour of an announced time frame isnt exactly random.
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Post by Stone Age »

Why are comments even allowed in this thread? Seems like an announcement to me. What's to discuss?
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Post by HolyShep »

Most, including myslf, were just venting. Maybe it was unnecessary, but at that point alot of people had things to get off their chest. I, for one, am over it. There's nothing that can be about it, so, bring on the next print! I'll take War By Numbers or Evolve to Devolve next. <crosses fingers>
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Re: A note from Obey customer service

Post by strangeloop »

I own a web development and hosting company and I know for a fact that these website issues can be solved with the money that they are making, especially now that they are making 6-8K more per sale with the increased prices.
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Re:

Post by DZEL »

Stone Age wrote:Why are comments even allowed in this thread? Seems like an announcement to me. What's to discuss?

while i'm sure the people at OG are aware of the print release issues at hand...i think it's good to read about all of the anger, frustration, countless hours of wasted time spent by his fans, etc.

while i missed the PE print last week, it seems it went extremely smooth and wrapped up nicely in a headache-free 5 mins.

so my question is this...what the hell happened from last week to this week's release???
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Re: Re:

Post by Gigantico »

DZEL wrote:
Stone Age wrote:Why are comments even allowed in this thread? Seems like an announcement to me. What's to discuss?

while i'm sure the people at OG are aware of the print release issues at hand...i think it's good to read about all of the anger, frustration, countless hours of wasted time spent by his fans, etc.

while i missed the PE print last week, it seems it went extremely smooth and wrapped up nicely in a headache-free 5 mins.

so my question is this...what the hell happened from last week to this week's release???


Me thinks less demand for the PE print was the difference.
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Re: A note from Obey customer service

Post by Phởgg »

400 PE prints sold out in 5 minutes vs. 1 hour

that ain't less demand
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Re: A note from Obey customer service

Post by Gigantico »

Phởgg wrote:400 PE prints sold out in 5 minutes vs. 1 hour

that ain't less demand


Yes, but if less people were bombing the site, it would have run smoother, no? Remember, even all of the less desirable prints of 08 have sold out almost immediately. The PE print had a higher price tag and less hype. Who knows, I don't know what I'm talking about... :lol:

Only Obey could confirm if there was less traffic for the PE print release. Bueller?
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Post by saintjordan »

I think bottom line is, the folks at obeygiant.com do not give a rat's @ss. They keep announcing the drop time and date and they know that it is going to frankfurter up their servers. If they cared they would always do a random drop. It is obvious.
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