Art world has gone to sh^t!

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tpeazy
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Art world has gone to sh^t!

Post by tpeazy »

I'll post this in G vs G, but I would be interested in what people think about the current state of the art world especially the little corner we inhabit.

Seems to me that this is happening; People need cash right now (don't blame 'em), which means nearly nothing is open to trade and since nobody has cash right now nearly everything is being sold super cheap, sometimes way below cost, driving the average value of the prints we own way down.
So now, when I go to sell/trade a print at the price it sold for just 2-3 months ago, I get people saying "but one just sold on eBay for $12!"
Fortunately, I am not in a situation where I am desperate for cash and need to sell stuff at these low prices. I would rather wait for things to bounce back. Which brings me to my question; Will it bounce back?

I also feel that a lot of this "no reserve" stuff selling cheap on eBay is not really selling for these prices. I'm guessing the sellers get a friend to put highest bid in to save them having to sell. Too often I see the same print that sold for next to nothing re-listed a week later. Of course EBeans (which a lot of people use as a buying/selling value gauge) doesn't account for this and the low price sales drop the average value of the art.

I believe trading is a safer option right now. What do you think?
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Post by slidingaround »

I also think a lot of people are useing expressobeans to determin value. The pound is not as strong to the dollar now, so because expressobeans is shown in dollars something that sold in pounds a while ago for the same price as now appears to have dropped in price because of the exchange rate.
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Post by hercylicious »

I believe it will go back up sometime , when is another question , but just like stock options , there is some good deals to be made right now , I purchased a piece I could never had purchased 6 months ago...
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hercylicious wrote:I believe it will go back up sometime , when is another question , but just like stock options , there is some good deals to be made right now , I purchased a piece I could never had purchased 6 months ago...

+1
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Post by slidingaround »

Great time to buy if you got the cash!
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Post by tpeazy »

hercylicious wrote:I believe it will go back up sometime , when is another question , but just like stock options , there is some good deals to be made right now , I purchased a piece I could never had purchased 6 months ago...


Totally agree. I have been lucky enough to buy some nice stuff real cheap.
It seems to me that a lot of people in our art buying/trading circles are trying for cash deals only because of the great high stuff that is available to buy now. Since nobody has cash to buy what they want all they can do is sell at desperate prices, which in the long run devalues a lot of the art they collect.
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Post by mr Revs »

slidingaround wrote:Great time to buy if you got the cash!



Precisely. However, we will most probably never again see some of the prices we saw over the past 3 years. Strangely enough, Shep print prices have stayed pretty steady for the new stuff, while the old stuff that comes up does not really get anymore expensive. It is certainly a great buying opportunity for those people how are not affected by the state of the global meltdown. Personally, I have been using this time to buy the things I have always wanted, forcing sellers to come down to my price. Let's not forget that this art space is filled with young people that really have no money, they were just chasing the profits. Now that you can't just turn 750 bucks into 1.5K, they need to sell. Throw in all the people that lost their jobs over the past 12 months and you get a recession special type of sale.

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Post by tpeazy »

mr Revs wrote:If anyone has an uncut BANKSY di-faced tenners they need to get rid of, I have 11k USD CASH in a bag waiting for you in NYC.


:lol: I don't blame you for trying and wouldn't be surprised if you scored.
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slidingaround wrote:I also think a lot of people are useing expressobeans to determin value. The pound is not as strong to the dollar now, so because expressobeans is shown in dollars something that sold in pounds a while ago for the same price as now appears to have dropped in price because of the exchange rate.


You shouldn't see prices changing, because ebeans price history isn't dynamic. It makes the currency conversion at the time it is listed on the site, and from that point forward the price remains static. I've just gone and confirmed this by viewing purchases/sales I've made over the past 18 months, and despite the huge swings in exchange rates, the listed prices have remained constant in dollars.
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Post by slidingaround »

Tad Ghostal wrote:
slidingaround wrote:I also think a lot of people are useing expressobeans to determin value. The pound is not as strong to the dollar now, so because expressobeans is shown in dollars something that sold in pounds a while ago for the same price as now appears to have dropped in price because of the exchange rate.


You shouldn't see prices changing, because ebeans price history isn't dynamic. It makes the currency conversion at the time it is listed on the site, and from that point forward the price remains static. I've just gone and confirmed this by viewing purchases/sales I've made over the past 18 months, and despite the huge swings in exchange rates, the listed prices have remained constant in dollars.


When you say the time it is listed on the site? You mean expresso beans right? Well what im saying is if i sold an Obey Hendrix for £300 a few months ago it would be shown at around $600. If i sold one now for £300 it would show at about $460! Thus appearing lower in value. Im pretty sure the exchange rate has been updated on their site when making the conversions, or am i wrong?
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Post by Tad Ghostal »

slidingaround wrote:
Tad Ghostal wrote:
slidingaround wrote:I also think a lot of people are useing expressobeans to determin value. The pound is not as strong to the dollar now, so because expressobeans is shown in dollars something that sold in pounds a while ago for the same price as now appears to have dropped in price because of the exchange rate.


You shouldn't see prices changing, because ebeans price history isn't dynamic. It makes the currency conversion at the time it is listed on the site, and from that point forward the price remains static. I've just gone and confirmed this by viewing purchases/sales I've made over the past 18 months, and despite the huge swings in exchange rates, the listed prices have remained constant in dollars.


When you say the time it is listed on the site? You mean expresso beans right? Well what im saying is if i sold an Obey Hendrix for £300 a few months ago it would be shown at around $600. If i sold one now for £300 it would show at about $460! Thus appearing lower in value. Im pretty sure the exchange rate has been updated on their site when making the conversions, or am i wrong?


Nope, sounds like you have it exactly right as far as how ebeans itself functions.
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Post by slidingaround »

Seems like that is a big factor maybe as to why people think things might be selling below cost etc.
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Post by Tad Ghostal »

slidingaround wrote:Seems like that is a big factor maybe as to why people think things might be selling below cost etc.


That's definitely possible. During much of '07 when the Dollar was weak against the Pound, and falling, that definitely contributed to the perceived "price increases" for Dollar based transactions. You can see that for sure on ebeans. And as the Dollar has gained strength in the exchanges, you've seen the prices drop on ebeans to a degree as well.

How much of that is due to the fluctuations in the forex, and how much of that is due to a lack of extra cash in the pockets of the collector base, its hard to say. But it seems fair to guess that there is some combination of both factors at work here.

Either way, it doesn't seem likely to this collector that we'll see prices go back up anytime in the near future. And that's a great thing if you've been after something that has been out of reach for the past several years.
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Post by slidingaround »

Tad Ghostal wrote:
slidingaround wrote:Seems like that is a big factor maybe as to why people think things might be selling below cost etc.


That's definitely possible. During much of '07 when the Dollar was weak against the Pound, and falling, that definitely contributed to the perceived "price increases" for Dollar based transactions. You can see that for sure on ebeans. And as the Dollar has gained strength in the exchanges, you've seen the prices drop on ebeans to a degree as well.

How much of that is due to the fluctuations in the forex, and how much of that is due to a lack of extra cash in the pockets of the collector base, its hard to say. But it seems fair to guess that there is some combination of both factors at work here.

Either way, it doesn't seem likely to this collector that we'll see prices go back up anytime in the near future. And that's a great thing if you've been after something that has been out of reach for the past several years.


Could'nt agree more! :) Not so good if you need some cash though! :lol:
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Post by password »

I think in our particular market, there was a great deal of hoarding. Also so much being released over the past year. Some people just bought and bought and now they figure they have to get rid of stuff because they can't possibly ever display it all. You couple that with the economy and weakening exchange rate in the busiest market and you have a great deal of supply. This is not even considering rampant and widespread speculation buying over the past year or 2.
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Post by extremeimages77 »

password wrote:I think in our particular market, there was a great deal of hoarding. Also so much being released over the past year. Some people just bought and bought and now they figure they have to get rid of stuff because they can't possibly ever display it all. You couple that with the economy and weakening exchange rate in the busiest market and you have a great deal of supply. This is not even considering rampant and widespread speculation buying over the past year or 2.

yup i agree
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password wrote:I think in our particular market, there was a great deal of hoarding.


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