**PETITION TO FIX OBEYGIANT.COM**

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spiff huxtable
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Re: **PETITION TO FIX OBEYGIANT.COM**

Post by spiff huxtable »

Signed.

Please fix your servers or I'll have to start spending my money on Mr. Branwash prints. He has been kicking your @ss lately.
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analogtrash
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Post by analogtrash »

TinManOne wrote:I dont even try anymore...=(
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Re: **PETITION TO FIX OBEYGIANT.COM**

Post by stuckeyc37 »

wasn't there a 2 week or so period where prints did stay in your cart. With the supposedly upgraded server and this type of system I wouldn't have much of a problem. If I only had to battle the masses to get it into my cart and could complete the purchase without dealing with the traffic load still trying to add prints it would make alot more sense to me. It just sucks that you have to battle 7k people to get the page loaded with the buy button, but then you have to battle 10k to get checkout and 20k to get back and be able to submit since more and more people come to purchase after trolling the message boards for the "up" call . I also never understood why you have to confirm your purchase at paypal and then again with obey. in the end, I think it is all part of a giant social experiment.
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Re: **PETITION TO FIX OBEYGIANT.COM**

Post by messboogs »

stuckeyc37 wrote:wasn't there a 2 week or so period where prints did stay in your cart. With the supposedly upgraded server and this type of system I wouldn't have much of a problem. If I only had to battle the masses to get it into my cart and could complete the purchase without dealing with the traffic load still trying to add prints it would make alot more sense to me. It just sucks that you have to battle 7k people to get the page loaded with the buy button, but then you have to battle 10k to get checkout and 20k to get back and be able to submit since more and more people come to purchase after trolling the message boards for the "up" call . I also never understood why you have to confirm your purchase at paypal and then again with obey. in the end, I think it is all part of a giant social experiment.
The confirming purchase back at OG is one of those things that prevents bots and backdoor purchases.
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Post by MunkeyPants »

I recall reading somewhere that it also scans the flipper/black list at that point too.
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Post by Buffin »

Yes I'll sign up. Not got a print in ages and even when I did I got a refund later! Why should people go through this crepe week in week out?

POW don't seem to have these issues and when they did oversell Banksy NOLA they sorted the people out with a new (and better) print.
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Post by anodyne13 »

Reasons not to sign a petition:

1. Faster checkouts mean less probability of getting a print. Demand far exceeds supply so a fast server wont mean you get a print.
2. Their business is working fine without it
3. The opportunity cost of waiting around must be worth it for the buyer or else they wouldn't wait
4. Why does everyone feel such a sense of entitlement concerning getting a print you are not OWED a print or a fast connection or anything from obey.
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Post by anodyne13 »

Also, the best way to make it easier for "true fans" (whatever that means) to buy a print is to raise the prices. I say $200 for every release. It really is the logical thing to do, but Obey has decided to keep the price low for all us greedy bastards and we thank them for the favor by bitching about how we cant get our below market prints fast enough.
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Re: **PETITION TO FIX OBEYGIANT.COM**

Post by Vigilant »

I prefer the way OG does websales versus other artists like Emek or Banksy. Yes, there are some that I miss out on, but at least I have a fighting chance. If you don't have the time to hang around for random drops, fight the servers, etc...then maybe the OG game isn't for you?

Face it, Shep has thousands of fans, and with runs of 450, someone is getting left out. At least with the inconsistent drop schedule it might help to alter the players, and give some other folks a chance.

What I do have a problem with is the increase in price, for which the supposed cause was never fully realized. Not even a little IMO.
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Re:

Post by cybernigel »

anodyne13 wrote:Reasons not to sign a petition:

1. Faster checkouts mean less probability of getting a print. Demand far exceeds supply so a fast server wont mean you get a print.
2. Their business is working fine without it
3. The opportunity cost of waiting around must be worth it for the buyer or else they wouldn't wait
4. Why does everyone feel such a sense of entitlement concerning getting a print you are not OWED a print or a fast connection or anything from obey.
Thanks for your comments, though the petition itself is not the place to debate it. Replys should indicate support however I'll gladly debate its merits in Giant vs. Giant. But to address your points...

1. Unfounded claim. Your chances are probably similar you'll just find out the result faster.
2. Overselling and issuing refunds is not a smooth business operation and costs them time and money. Though obviously they are a successful business.
3. Sure but there's a better way to do it. There are many long time collectors who've mentioned they don't even try any more, not because it's not worth it to them but they may not have the luxury of time that the current system now requires to score.
4. I never mentioned being owed a print from Obey so you are creating a strawman fallacy with that claim. I just think it's unreasonable to have to spend a large chunk of my day trying to buy one. Sometimes I'll get lucky other times I won't but that shouldn't need to take several hours each drop to figure out. However, they did state that they were raising prices to improve the servers and that performance has not been realized.
Last edited by cybernigel on Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by cybernigel »

anodyne13 wrote:Also, the best way to make it easier for "true fans" (whatever that means) to buy a print is to raise the prices. I say $200 for every release. It really is the logical thing to do, but Obey has decided to keep the price low for all us greedy bastards and we thank them for the favor by bitching about how we cant get our below market prints fast enough.
"True fans" is a term that Shep used when he was referring to people who are not flippers. So like you recently bought Israel/Palestine then turned around and immediately tried to sell it for profit, so he would probably not consider you a true fan according to that definition, but whatever. I included that term in the petition to appeal to his desire to get his art to the people that really want it. I feel part of the concept of making his art accessible to his fans is that transactional errors are an obstacle to accessibility. If you are lucky enough to be there when it drops then that's the luck part but you shouldn't be challenged trying to complete the check out.

I don't know about you but my time is valuable. If I spend 3 hours trying to get a $45 print the real value of that entire purchase is more than $45. I'm not greedy, life is short. Now selling Israel/Palestine for about 5 times over cost as soon as you receive it well, that might qualify as greedy but that was your blanket statement, not mine.

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Last edited by cybernigel on Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:28 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Phởgg
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Re: **PETITION TO FIX OBEYGIANT.COM**

Post by Phởgg »

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anodyne13
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Re: Re:

Post by anodyne13 »

cybernigel wrote:
anodyne13 wrote:Reasons not to sign a petition:

1. Faster checkouts mean less probability of getting a print. Demand far exceeds supply so a fast server wont mean you get a print.
2. Their business is working fine without it
3. The opportunity cost of waiting around must be worth it for the buyer or else they wouldn't wait
4. Why does everyone feel such a sense of entitlement concerning getting a print you are not OWED a print or a fast connection or anything from obey.
Thanks for your comments, though the petition itself is not the place to debate it. Replys should indicate support however I'll gladly debate its merits in Giant vs. Giant. But to address your points...

1. Unfounded claim. You chances are probably similar you'll just find out the result faster.
2. Overselling and issuing refunds is not a smooth business operation and costs them time and money. Though obviously they are a successful business.
3. Sure but there's a better way to do it. There are many long time collectors who've mentioned they dont' even try any more, not because it's not worth it to them but they may not have the luxury of time that the current system now requires to score.
4. I never mentioned being owed a print from Obey so you are creating a strawman fallacy with that claim. I just think it's unreasonable to have to spend a large chunk of my day trying to buy one. Sometimes I'll get lucky other times I won't but that shouldn't need to take several hours each drop to figure out. However, they did state that they were raising prices to improve the servers and that performance has not been realized.
In response:
1. While you are correct in I have no claim to support this, I have had much more success getting "slow" Obey releases than "Fast" Kawasaki or Banksy releases.
3. Exactly my point if youre waiting around to get a print it is obviously worth it for you to wait around for it otherwise you would not be waiting.
4. If it is so unreasonable for people to spend that much time in their day to get a print then why do people do it? No one has a gun to their head. They do it because IT IS reasonable to those people. I still think the basis for your mindset that Obey MUST fix this problem resides in the basis that you think obey owes you a quick and simple transaction. If you dont think they owe you this then why even have a petition in the first place?

5. My point on "True Fans" is that all us Obey fans are really only true fans that will purchase prints at a given price. There are true fans of Obey Elephant at $45 and not on eBay for $350. I'm a fan and I score Israel/Palestine at cost and then I miss out on Elephant so as a true fan I pay $350 on eBay for it and sell Israel/Palestine. Why wouldn't true fans just buy every print on ebay and never have to waste any time on drop day? The answer is once again we are all "true fans" at a price and if you really want smooth drops and with increased probability of prints landing in the hands of "true fans" than instead of petitioning for server improvements or whatever you would be petitioning for Shep to raise his prices to a market level and all problems would be solved.
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Post by cybernigel »

Yes, there is more than one way to make purchasing prints less challenging.
Some suggestions are:
1. Increase prices
2. Increase edition sizes
3. Fix the ecommerce site

Maybe there are even others I'm overlooking. As a collector (and frugal individual) I like option 3 the best. If you prefer option 1, then by all means, start a separate petition for a price increase. From statements I've heard Shepard make, I don't think he wants to do that because of his position on keeping his prints affordable. However, I don't think he ever anticipated the demand he is enjoying today.
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Re: **PETITION TO FIX OBEYGIANT.COM**

Post by gpt104 »

anodyne13 wrote:
In response:
1. While you are correct in I have no claim to support this, I have had much more success getting "slow" Obey releases than "Fast" Kawasaki or Banksy releases.
3. Exactly my point if youre waiting around to get a print it is obviously worth it for you to wait around for it otherwise you would not be waiting.
4. If it is so unreasonable for people to spend that much time in their day to get a print then why do people do it? No one has a gun to their head. They do it because IT IS reasonable to those people. I still think the basis for your mindset that Obey MUST fix this problem resides in the basis that you think obey owes you a quick and simple transaction. If you dont think they owe you this then why even have a petition in the first place?

5. My point on "True Fans" is that all us Obey fans are really only true fans that will purchase prints at a given price. There are true fans of Obey Elephant at $45 and not on eBay for $350. I'm a fan and I score Israel/Palestine at cost and then I miss out on Elephant so as a true fan I pay $350 on eBay for it and sell Israel/Palestine. Why wouldn't true fans just buy every print on ebay and never have to waste any time on drop day? The answer is once again we are all "true fans" at a price and if you really want smooth drops and with increased probability of prints landing in the hands of "true fans" than instead of petitioning for server improvements or whatever you would be petitioning for Shep to raise his prices to a market level and all problems would be solved.
Well said - as hard as #5 is to accept, that is very true.

I've thought about higher prices for a while and if it would be good or not. As hard as it would be to buy prints on a consistent basis at the 20 Year Retro Series price level, I have not seen many of those attempted to be flipped or even traded. Therefore, the higher price point weeds out the "weak" (flippers) and allows "true fans" to score. Granted some get caught in the middle, but...

Maybe this experience transforms from a buy whatever shows up on OG as it is now to save enough to be able to buy the next one you really love (Obey Elephant, Peace Tree or Retro Series) say 1x per month.

We can't have it all and its greedy to think otherwise. While yesterday was really frustrating, it is just part of it and something that we will have to accept as it likely will not get drastically better. Fix the ecommerce site so drops are super smooth and the same thing will still happen, probably more flippers would score.

I don't mind paying more to have a 100 or 300 edition print that I missed the drop on than versus seeing all new releases go to 750 or 1000.

In the end, I'm fine with winning some and losing some at the current price.
Last edited by gpt104 on Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Solar »

Agree with the above poster. The site may be frustrating, but Shep is basically giving his prints away at the current price point. You may not get every one you're after, but when a print is limited to 450 and an artist has tens of thousands of fans, you can't always have it your way. If you are having trouble investing the time necessary to purchasing the print then you may want to put a monetary value on your time and see if it isn't just cheaper to buy the print from a secondary source.

Personally, I think a print like Peace Elephant is a steal at $350. If it was released by any other artist of Shep's caliber it would have sold for at least $500 from the source. The fact that Shep decides to sell it for $45 is enough to keep me from complaining about server issues.
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Post by Stone Age »

I will not sign. I have little to no problem getting prints with the current system. I have NEVER been able to obtain a Banksy print which is what would likely happen with Obey prints if the site was "upgraded". Sry for yer lots.
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Post by MunkeyPants »

I vote for announced drops. Period. At least then I know when the cluster will be. Much less time wasted. But that would destroy the Hype.

Still waiting for the print that had Don't Believe The Hype as a tagline. Shep put it in a mural, I want the print. 'nuff said.
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Post by nas »

Signed without a doubt.

Every time a release has taken place on another site, it's been very smooth...no issues whatsoever.

Now...when it comes to the OG site, it's hit or miss. Yes....I understand that you win some and you lose some but some folks wait for hours upon hours just to be denied by insufficient technology.

For an artist of his caliber, he should without a doubt invest the $$ needed to make this fix.

How many times has the site just shut down? Many

How many prints have we lost coming out of paypal back to the site to complete the order? Many

How many flippers have made crazy cash instantly posting prints after selling out? Many

Why doesn't OG "truly" crack down on the flippers. It can be easily done.

Please invest in the needed inferstructure to allow us all equal chance.

Also, please keep the randon times...that helps to eliminate the cluster mess it seems...well slightly.

Keep up the good work but please help us, the fans out.

Peace.
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Re: **PETITION TO FIX OBEYGIANT.COM**

Post by Phởgg »

The current Obey shop works well for individuals that fit into one of the below listed categories

A. Unemployed/print flipper
B. Employed but a half-a$$ed low waged slacker employee assisting the hard working Chinese to happily move into the position of world economic leadership by not being a productive citizen of your own nation
C. A student that should be studying
D. A student that will fail due to time wasting habits such as the Obey random print drop of which will lead said student to an A, B, or C lifestyle
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Post by pharoah7 »

Shep's making so much money no matter what, he definitely has mastered the concept of supply and demand

He knows there is a high demand for his work no matter what, so he can keep the supply low and not even have to worry because people will still buy his work at jacked up prices

I myself have just given up on trying to buy prints, none of late have I been intrigued by, until one catches my eye, I'm with those who think that they don't care
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Post by password »

Why do people think there's a better chance of getting a print if the system is slow?

With a given # of buyers attempting to purchase a print, your chances or scoring a print are the same no matter how fast or slow the system is. There is no probability advantage with a slower system.
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Re:

Post by sheeponahill »

password wrote:Why do people think there's a better chance of getting a print if the system is slow?

With a given # of buyers attempting to purchase a print, your chances or scoring a print are the same no matter how fast or slow the system is. There is no probability advantage with a slower system.
There is the attrition factor. System acts up/slows down/asks for passwords, etc and there are a lot of people who simply quit (read the boards). Maybe they aren't "committed", maybe they don't have the time to sit there and f5, whatever, but that definitely favors people who do have the time and are willing to try.
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Re: Re:

Post by password »

sheeponahill wrote:
password wrote:Why do people think there's a better chance of getting a print if the system is slow?

With a given # of buyers attempting to purchase a print, your chances or scoring a print are the same no matter how fast or slow the system is. There is no probability advantage with a slower system.
There is the attrition factor. System acts up/slows down/asks for passwords, etc and there are a lot of people who simply quit (read the boards). Maybe they aren't "committed", maybe they don't have the time to sit there and f5, whatever, but that definitely favors people who do have the time and are willing to try.
Yes, and that's the exact reason why the servers need to be fixed/improved. What you describe is just a net societal and economic loss.
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Re: Re:

Post by sheeponahill »

password wrote:
sheeponahill wrote:
password wrote:Why do people think there's a better chance of getting a print if the system is slow?

With a given # of buyers attempting to purchase a print, your chances or scoring a print are the same no matter how fast or slow the system is. There is no probability advantage with a slower system.
There is the attrition factor. System acts up/slows down/asks for passwords, etc and there are a lot of people who simply quit (read the boards). Maybe they aren't "committed", maybe they don't have the time to sit there and f5, whatever, but that definitely favors people who do have the time and are willing to try.
Yes, and that's the exact reason why the servers need to be fixed/improved. What you describe is just a net societal and economic loss.
A net societal and economic loss? Wow. I'd like to suggest that you might be taking this a little too seriously.

How do you feel about people who sleep out overnight to get tickets to concerts or, OMG, the people who wait in the long lines to try out for American Idol!!! What a giant waste of communal effort, huh? Armegeddon! They need better systems too; those people might cure cancer if only they weren't waiting in line!
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