flipping discussion split from revolutions thread

[conartstudio]

It bothers me more to hear the whining than to miss the print... but of course I don't have to read the whining! Missing a print just means luck wasn't with me that day even though I've done everything I can to increase my chances of scoring (platinum club, what?). I don't clench my fist and curse the sky at the thought of some flipper posting the preview image from obeygiant.com to sell their print on ebay, but that's just me.

completely agree.... those who constantly complain have entitlement issues and feel the need to take it out on those (platinum club, what?) who were lucky enough to score.

[woodyland]

Point to one person who is telling you what you can and can't do with something you own.

I'll give you four:TheOmethod, ritedere, spagucci1, all from page one of this thread plus a member who's comments have been deleted (or at least I can't find it anymore) who got so excited over TheOmethod's post that he wrote that they(the sellers) should be hunted down & crucified. Thus, my sig.

Finally, I haven't listed anything from Shep for sale, anywhere. Well, I take that back, I do have some older prints on EB under my WT. Anyway.....I was defending someone's right sell what they have. That's all. That's how this whole thread got started. I appreciate you, whyhoo, stat, & others for coming to my defense while putting your own reputations on the line.

And stat, thanks for pointing to the numerous non~callouts from Thursday's print drop. I read where a member said 'they were on the case' when two or three album sets went up on ebay & I took that to mean obey was working w/ebay to get names of the violators. But as predicted, on Thursday post drop, where there is an obvious violation of both obey & EB rules, the silence was deafening.

[spagucci1]

You do understand that the person who said they were on the case was Omethod. Here is another piece of info you probably didn't know; Omethod works for Obey and is one of Shep's assistants. Now chew on that for bit.

[woodyland]

You do understand that the person who said they were on the case was Omethod. Here is another piece of info you probably didn't know; Omethod works for Obey and is one of Shep's assistants. Now chew on that for bit.

Yes, I am fully aware. What? Are you saying I should censor myself when all I did was answer a question. I didn't call this member any names.

When are you going to foe me already? I mean you said you were going to do it. That is what you said, your word. Uh huh.

[conartstudio]

Point to one person who is telling you what you can and can't do with something you own.

I'll give you four:TheOmethod, ritedere, spagucci1, all from page one of this thread plus a member who's comments have been deleted (or at least I can't find it anymore) who got so excited over TheOmethod's post that he wrote that they(the sellers) should be hunted down & crucified. Thus, my sig.

not one of them is telling you what to do. that's what you don't seem to understand. they all have opinions on flipping but not one of them is telling you can't do anything. if omethod says "if you flip this print then you will be banned from buying anything on OG", he's not telling you what to do, he's telling you what their policy is... and believe it or not, OG can do whatever they want with their art. if they don't want to sell anything to you on THEIR own private website then they are perfectly free to do so....

again, it's still not anyone telling you what to do.

as far as spagucci's comments, he merely stated the act of reselling a print for profit would make you a flipper. that is a true fact. you keep trying to twist things to avoid that label. he's not telling you what you can and can't do, he's just saying that if you do flip then you will be called a flipper and won't be welcomed around here. that is your choice, nobody is holding a gun to your head and telling you what to do.

[conartstudio]

I was defending someone's right sell what they have. That's all.

the problem is that NOBODY asked you to defend their right to sell what they have. it's not something that needs defending, people can do whatever they want to do with something they own.

what you are just trying to avoid being labeled a flipper. that is, for some reason, what you are obsessed about preventing.

nobody cares. if you want to sell something then go and sell it.

[vvk]

" he merely stated the act of reselling a print for profit would make you a flipper. that is a true fact. "

just curious....
Was this written up wrong? Did i read it the wrong way, or did you really mean anyone who sells something for a profit is a flipper? I Was under the impression that a flipper was someone who was lucky enough to by someting durring the initail release then turnaround and list it for sale before they even have it. and sell it for much more then they paid for it. a flipper is anyone who resells a print or object for more then they paid...

Im just tring understand what this all means.. I Usually on buy or attempt to buy prints that I like and will hopefuly frame and hang.. As it turns out.. I have some prints that will not make it to a wall and are laying flat in a portfolio file for no one to see . I have recently thought about selling some in hopes that i can one day have the nec funds to buy a canavs or hpm ( Stilling waiting for one of you guys to give up the WBN or elephants) that really moves me...If i sell these prints at the current going rate ( based on eb tracking) does that mean im a flipper?

[vvk]

" he merely stated the act of reselling a print for profit would make you a flipper. that is a true fact. "

just curious....
Was this written up wrong? Did i read it the wrong way, or did you really mean anyone who sells something for a profit is a flipper? I Was under the impression that a flipper was someone who was lucky enough to by someting durring the initail release then turnaround and list it for sale before they even have it. and sell it for much more then they paid for it. a flipper is anyone who resells a print or object for more then they paid?

Im just tring understand what this all means.. I Usually on buy or attempt to buy prints that I like and will hopefuly frame and hang.. As it turns out.. I have some prints that will not make it to a wall and are laying flat in a portfolio file for no one to see . I have recently thought about selling some in hopes that i can one day have the nec funds to buy a canavs or hpm ( Stilling waiting for one of you guys to give up the WBN or elephants) that really moves me...If i sell these prints at the current going rate ( based on eb tracking) does that mean im a flipper?

[alwaysalx]

FYI, we have a full list of numbers and buyers. The ebayers will be contacted

Fukkin eh!
Hunt those clowns down and crucify them.

It was ME not TheOmethod who said we should hunt you down and crucify you

[sas]

Not sure why many are still wondering what OG's definition of a flipper is. According to OG's policy, it is below and quite clear to me:
"There is a difference between a print collector who purchases a print, archives it for months, years even, then decides to barter or sell a piece with the intention of getting more cherished artwork THAN a "collector" who purchases a print then has it posted on Ebay before the print is actually received in hand or the moment they receive it the mail."

Many will debate “how long do you need to hold a print before selling it and not be considered a flipper”…well, that is for OG to decide. I said in an earlier post, use your judgment, or more specifically, the Potter Stewart approach "I know it when I see it". Thankfully I don’t have to make those determinations – OG does. If one wants to sell a print when he/she gets his/her OG confirmation, or right when they get it in the mail or right after getting it from the gallery and standing in line for 8 hours - so be it - it is his/her property; however, I personally think it is rude and against the wishes of the artist. Consequently, if the artist and his company decides to blacklists the seller (aka the flipper)…well - the flipper earned that distinction by defying the rules set forth by the company (OG). So long as a company (OG) does not discriminate against one for reasons protected by the courts (age, gender, orientation, disability, etc.) they can do as they wish. Why are many trying to make us debate each other on the interpretation of OG’s policy when it seems quite clear to me? What is so gray in the above policy, seems black and white?

[conartstudio]

" he merely stated the act of reselling a print for profit would make you a flipper. that is a true fact. "

just curious....
Was this written up wrong? Did i read it the wrong way, or did you really mean anyone who sells something for a profit is a flipper? I Was under the impression that a flipper was someone who was lucky enough to by someting durring the initail release then turnaround and list it for sale before they even have it.

no, flipping has NOTHING to do with possession of an item. the act of buying something for a low price with the sole intent to turn around and resell it for a higher cost is, by definition, a flipper. think of flipping a house. people who flip houses for a living buy houses on the cheap and resell them for a higher cost - investors do the same with the stock market. it has nothing to do with having actually something in your possession before reselling it, that is just the policy of this forum and OG.

ad jak88 pointed out earlier in this thread: http://forum.thegiant.org/viewtopic.php ... 84#p342684

Definition from Merriam-Webster
flipping

to buy and usually renovate (real estate) so as to quickly resell at a higher price

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipping

Flipping is a term used primarily in the United States to describe purchasing a revenue-generating asset and quickly reselling (or "flipping") it for profit. Though flipping can apply to any asset, the term is most often applied to real estate and initial public offerings.

http://www.investorwords.com/2012/flipping.html

Im just tring understand what this all means.. I Usually on buy or attempt to buy prints that I like and will hopefuly frame and hang.. As it turns out.. I have some prints that will not make it to a wall and are laying flat in a portfolio file for no one to see . I have recently thought about selling some in hopes that i can one day have the nec funds to buy a canavs or hpm ( Stilling waiting for one of you guys to give up the WBN or elephants) that really moves me...If i sell these prints at the current going rate ( based on eb tracking) does that mean im a flipper?

no, you would not be a flipper. you didnt' buy those prints with the sole intention on reselling them right away to make a quick profit. if you bought the next print with the sole intention on reselling it to help pay for something else then that would be the act of flipping, therefor you would be a flipper.

make sense?

[alwaysalx]

give it a rest frib, the sas post above was all the answers we needed.
we don't care what merriam webster, investorworld or wikipedia says.
i solely give a shitt what shepard fairey and the obey family feel.
end of discussion.
i highly recommend you re-read the post above yours.

[woodyland]

WARNING~THIS MIGHT MAKE SOME RAVENOUS

not one of them is telling you what to do. that's what you don't seem to understand. they all have opinions on flipping but not one of them is telling you can't do anything. if omethod says "if you flip this print then you will be banned from buying anything on OG", he's not telling you what to do, he's telling you what their policy is... and believe it or not, OG can do whatever they want with their art. if they don't want to sell anything to you on THEIR own private website then they are perfectly free to do so....Of course they have every right to sell to whomever they choose
again, it's still not anyone telling you what to do. I was interpreting negative consequences as being told what to do. If that was incorrect on my part then I can accept that.

as far as spagucci's comments, he merely stated the act of reselling a print for profit would make you you must be using the generic 'you', because I was not defending an action I was taking, instead, the lister of the Box Set a flipper. that is a true fact. That is in fact false. For example, Adam & Mary's store is reselling prints for profit. I'm sure you meant to refine 'act of reselling a print for profit' to 'act of immediately reselling a print for profit. you keep trying to twist things to avoid that label. he's not telling you what you can and can't do, he's just saying that if you do flip then you will be called a flipper and won't be welcomed around here. that is your choice, nobody is holding a gun to your head and telling you what to do.

Some of you guys keep forgetting that I haven't listed anything except some older prints @ EB @ the art image page under FS/T. I happen to agree w/thegiant policy of having the item in hand before listing it. Where we, spag & I, differ is definition of a flipper.

I was defending someone's right sell what they have. That's all.

the problem is that NOBODY asked you to defend their right to sell what they have. it's not something that needs defending, people can do whatever they want to do with something they own. If folks are free to whine then I am free to defend. what you are just trying to avoid being labeled a flipper. that is, for some reason, what you are obsessed about preventing. nobody cares. I care. if you want to sell something then go and sell it.

" he merely stated the act of reselling a print for profit would make you a flipper. that is a true fact. "

just curious....
Was this written up wrong? Did i read it the wrong way, or did you really mean anyone who sells something for a profit is a flipper? I don't think he really meant that at all but I could be wrong. I Was under the impression that a flipper was someone who was lucky enough to by someting durring the initail release then turnaround and list it for sale before they even have it. You are correct, THAT is what defines a flipper, listing an item NOT in hand. and sell it for much more then they paid for it. a flipper is anyone who resells a print or object for more then they paid? Obviously not. It is perfectly fine to sell a print that you have in your possession for much more than what you paid for it.

Im just tring understand what this all means.. I Usually on buy or attempt to buy prints that I like and will hopefuly frame and hang.. As it turns out.. I have some prints that will not make it to a wall and are laying flat in a portfolio file for no one to see . I have recently thought about selling some in hopes that i can one day have the nec funds to buy a canavs or hpm ( Stilling waiting for one of you guys to give up the WBN or elephants) that really moves me...If i sell these prints at the current going rate ( based on eb tracking) does that mean im a flipper?

Absolutely not. What some have a problem with, including Obey, is the timing. According to some, including obey, there comes a time when it's okay to resell & not be considered a flipper. According to others, many others, a flipper is strictly defined as listing an item that is not yet in hand.

It was ME not TheOmethod who said we should hunt you down and crucify you

Oh boy .First, it wasn't me you were trying to stir up a mob against but rather the supposed violator. And again, reread what I wrote:

Point to one person who is telling you what you can and can't do with something you own.

I'll give you four:TheOmethod, ritedere, spagucci1, all from page one of this thread plus a member whose comments have been deleted (or at least I can't find it anymore) who got so excited over TheOmethod's post that he wrote that they(the sellers) should be hunted down & crucified. Thus, my sig.

Not sure why many are still wondering what OG's definition of a flipper is. There is no debate over what obeys policy is, only what defines a flipper. And I'll add that they have every right to hold onto those principles & ban or sell to whomever they wishWhy are many trying to make us debate each other on the interpretation of OG’s policy when it seems quite clear to me? What is so gray in the above policy, seems black and white?

When or @ what point & time does one move from the realm of flipper~dom & into the world of respected reseller. That's what would be gray to me if I didn't believe the way that I do.

[conartstudio]

as far as spagucci's comments, he merely stated the act of reselling a print for profit would make you a flipper. that is a true fact.

That is in fact false. For example, Adam & Mary's store is reselling prints for profit. I'm sure you meant to refine 'act of reselling a print for profit' to 'act of immediately reselling a print for profit.

no, i did not mean immediately... i was talking about the intent, it doesn't have to be immediate. neither adam and mary bought their prints with the sole purpose/intent to make a profit. you have an inability to grasp the concept of intent. you you buy something at a low cost with the sole intent to turn a and resell for a profit is flipping. the key word is intent. it has nothing to do with possession or selling something years later. they bought with the intent to keep them and they no longer need them or want them so they are selling them at market value.

again, you seem to be stuck on the label "flipper"... both a flipper and what adam and mary are doing are the same thing, they are both reselling an item - the difference here, which is what defines a flipper, is the intent.

you can disagree with what you think a flipper is but you would be wrong, it's in the webster's dictionary.

as i've already mention, do whatever you want with your prints - who freaking cares. if you sell with the sole purpose to make money then have a ball, just don't get ticked off with what people call you. nobody is asking for anyone to defend them so i don't understand why you are hell bent on trying to justify the act of flipper when nobody really cares in the first place.

[woodyland]

okay

[vvk]

make sense?

yeah makes sense . thanks man, much appreciated ...
Im thinking i may try and start buying mbw prints on his website with the sole intention to resell them and buy other things im interested in ....have not done it yet... but the thought did cross my mind.. does anyone have any feedback on how things work on his sites?
is it a blood bath like the giant drops?

[BigBp0057]

This thread is exhausting. The bottom line is this.... OG could raise the price of prints to $250 to weed out a lot of the flippers, but it would also make the prints less accessible to true fans who can't afford to drop the $250. In order to not price those fans out and make the work available to more people the price stays low, and in return they ask that you don't flip the print. That's it, they will offer prints at an affordable price to fans and ask that you don't buy it with the intent to immediately to resell.

No offence woody and I don't know you but you have 50 posts on this forum and they are 90% argumentative, can't we just talk about art and artists we like and don't like as a community instead of baiting folks into arguments over something that people will always have a different opinion on? Let it rest man, life is too short to drink cheap beer and argue on forums.

my $0.02

[woodyland]

Sounds good & my usual modus operandi. My fault for getting caught up & knee deep in what is a lot of my own doing.

Please everyone, accept my apology for stirring the pot & acting like a malcontent.

Adam & Mary, I meant no direct offense by using your names. I won't be of trouble again.

While I try & make my peace please make no assumptions that I'm a convert. My wish is to make amends where the fabric of the community is thin & to proceed w/good health.

[superfly snuka]

Ummm, can I please have the 20 minutes of my life back that I just wasted reading this. Geezus.

No one is dying, getting arrested or having a sex change, so this is beyond excessive. No that it matters or that anyone cares, but the fact there's 6 pages of this madness, is the exact reason I have disappeared from the board for months at a time over the years. Most people / members are to help, educate and really just enjoy the "hobby" of collecting Obey / Shepard Fairey art, not to get a rise out of people and create tension here. Let's keep it that way.

[illyanadmc]

Adam & Mary, I meant no direct offense by using your names. I won't be of trouble again.

no worries, and no offense taken. you guys can discuss our print store all you want - we have no secrets when it comes to selling our prints!

[cargo]

make sense?

yeah makes sense . thanks man, much appreciated ...
Im thinking i may try and start buying mbw prints on his website with the sole intention to resell them and buy other things im interested in ....have not done it yet... but the thought did cross my mind.. does anyone have any feedback on how things work on his sites?
is it a blood bath like the giant drops?

Now your talkin'!! Success on a MBW drop = $400 or more profit.

[maden]

My name is cargo and I'm a flipper.

But you are not gonna acknowledge your awesome flip? For shame!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Shepard-Fairey-MOON ... 533wt_1141

[suckafree]

Sorry if I did not notice this in the mountain of comments in this topic or the others but I wanted to interject something that I have been noticing lately (has been going on for a while I just did not notice as much) on various sites FS/FT's. When we discuss flipping how do you guys feel about people requesting the going value of something as soon as it is released (which has been inflated by ebay flipping for $$) for another artists price established print? I.E. I am going to trade Legislative influence 3 days after I receive it, look at Ebeans and see the average price is $500 so I want the equivalent print by Faile that has 3 years of value on it. Make sense? I personally find this scenario annoying and in my honest opinion no different than the things being discussed here in regard to timing and pricing expectations. The only difference is the person is not directly asking for $$$. Just my .02

[woodyland]

All one has to do is come up w/a new [t]reason why it's necessary to sell, no, make that come up w/a new way of phrasing a tired & overused [t]reason why it's necessary to sell in order to not bring down the wrath of con. What's the difference, trading a new print for one that's valued @ $500, or trading it for a 500 dollar bill. As long as it's in hand it's yours to do with as you wish. [It goes w/out saying] this is my opinion. Others are sure to follow.

[suckafree]

Woody, I understand what you are saying and I think one thing you are not giving people credit for is their intelligence. People inherently (especially around here) are reasonable and rational individuals. You have spent considerable time arguing this topic and after some consideration I believe what the heart of the issue comes down to is tact. Like many things in life, people know when they are getting the short end of the stick, from unfair taxation to customer service, people are aware of it. What they do not need is for it to be shoved in their face (especially in this case if they are a true collector of wares and enjoy it for the qualitative value and not the quantitative value). I particularly despise any form of ruse by anyone in my life and hence why I posted my above comment because I find it annoying like someone is saying "well I am not directly asking for money but if it changes hands enough times it wont make me look bad." So, what I am really saying here is that people know what is going on and why it is going on. Justifying your actions are not necessary.