Newbie questions

[penfold]

Hi guys,
I'd like to introduce myself with this thread. I am about to embark on a print/sticker collecting journey having just cottoned on to this whole thing (better late than never) and I have some questions regarding authenticity. Basically I'd like to know what to look out for should I choose to buy anything off ebay. Does every numbered print come with a certificate of authenticity? Also I received some stickers today and they have a black and white version of the art on the back. Can I expect that from all official stickers? I have more questions but i'll start off with those. Any information will be greatly appreciated as I am about as new as it gets to this and I apologise if I am covering old ground for some of you

[Patillac13]

Almost all of the standard prints do not come with certificates of authenticity, some special sets come with COAs. Most stickers are blank on the back side (some have a reminder not to litter or an Obey logo).

[penfold]

Thanks for your reply . So presumably then I am just looking for it to be numbered and signed? Forgive my ignorance but are these prints and signatures not easily forged? Compared to say, a dollar bill or a penny black?

[extremeimages77]

there is a thread here about signatures..they change slightly through the years..let me see if i can find

[penfold]

Ok thanks

[jak88]

With signatures, one thing you can always do is get a photo of the sig from the eBay Seller, and post it here for Forum members to look at.

No guarantees, but people around here have seen Shep's sig many many times over the years and could render their non-binding opinions.

[penfold]

Ok cheers, I'll bear that in mind. Obviously I'm not overly concerned, certainly not enough to stop me from embarking on my collection. I just wonder about the overall implications for all of us in the future with regard to the bigger picture. Thanks for your input.

[rlbchef]

for stickers check here:
http://forum.thegiant.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21945

good info on vintage and what to look for

[penfold]

Cheers mate, appreciated. You know how it is trying to find specific info on massive forums like this

[MarshMan65]

Welcome to the Forum!

[Lazy-8]

I am still quite new myself but I have acquired a little over a dozen or so and I the one thing became very clear. Buy what you like. Some will be valuable and some won't but don't buy because of hype (already regret a couple of buys). Good luck and have fun.

[robotoil]

I am still quite new myself but I have acquired a little over a dozen or so and I the one thing became very clear. Buy what you like. Some will be valuable and some won't but don't buy because of hype (already regret a couple of buys). Good luck and have fun.

! Exactly. Number 1 rule of collecting. Only buy what you like as you may be stuck with it.

If you are collecting for future value, go pre-2000 when Shepard was involved in every step of the print process. Pre-2000 prints are the fine art of that time.

[penfold]

Thanks for your answers and your advice guys, and cheers Marshman . I am collecting primarily because I am attracted to the Art, for me personally ALL of the Public Enemy prints would be me grail I guess, just because of my love for the band. But I wouldn't want to pay for arguments sake $1000 for something only to find out it had no more true value than a poster I could have printed myself, as I'm sure nobody would. I'm just trying to foresee how it will all work but I guess it will become a lot clearer to me when I actually start receiving prints.

[notudon]

A good barometer for the "current value" of a print is http://www.expressobeans.com/
Not the end all be all source for the possible value of a print you are looking at buying. Just a good way to see what people may have spent recently for that print.

[comiconart]

If you are collecting for future value, go pre-2000 when Shepard was involved in every step of the print process. Pre-2000 prints are the fine art of that time.

Well...they are certainly the prints of that time, at any rate.

Just because there really wasn't any fine art at that time, that doesn't mean that prints are now fine art. There are plenty of artists that create prints and only prints...and these prints are not then treated as fine art simply because true fine art does not exist.

As far as prints go, clearly pre-2000 is the cream of the crop...and many of these prints are very valuable due to popularity and rarity in top condition. That should be enough...I don't know why it is necessary to try to make it into something it is not.

[HolyShep]

Comiconart definately knows a lil something about fine art.

[penfold]

All understood, fine art comment was taken in context. Are my obey stickers and posse stickers made of vinyl? And are they difficult to remove?

[robotoil]

If you are collecting for future value, go pre-2000 when Shepard was involved in every step of the print process. Pre-2000 prints are the fine art of that time.

Well...they are certainly the prints of that time, at any rate.

Just because there really wasn't any fine art at that time, that doesn't mean that prints are now fine art. There are plenty of artists that create prints and only prints...and these prints are not then treated as fine art simply because true fine art does not exist.

As far as prints go, clearly pre-2000 is the cream of the crop...and many of these prints are very valuable due to popularity and rarity in top condition. That should be enough...I don't know why it is necessary to try to make it into something it is not.

"I don't know why it is necessary to try to make it into something it is not."

Educating a new collector is what I'm attempting to do. Understanding that prior to 2000, there is almost no art from Shepard Fairey other than the prints where he cut the rubyliths, stencils and hand screened editions of 100 or less that largely do not exist anymore. The prints prior to 2000 were the final conceptualized art. Where Shepard's hands were on every aspect of the art. There are actually true experimental APs from that time. Prints prior to 2000 say "Giant". Prints prior to 2000 were part of the artistic period called "Absurist Propaganda." Prior to 2000 is where 99% of what you see today is culled from. It's the time period from which Shepard reaches back to whether it's to make Beatles on metal 4 years after the prints were released or 14 years later after the prints were released to make collages with AK-47s. It's the period that when Shep had a gallery show, the "art" that Shepard hung on the walls were the prints. Nothing but prints. Shepard considered it fine art.

Prints after 2000 are an after thought of the fine art that he now makes and are manipulated in a computer with an image sent to the printer. Then numbered by assistants and laid out for Shepard to sign. It's art. Enjoy it. Just don't expect them to appreciate in value.

It really does seem like a major oversight to claim that there is nothing different about a print before 2000 and a print after 2000 other then rarity.

[pennylesspig]

@robotoil,
I have around 10 Obey prints and most of them are pre-2000. I appreciate his prints on bright white paper and seeing all the little imperfections that resulted from being hand-printed by Shep. However, to say that these editioned prints are fine art is a stretch. Like comiconart said, pre-2000 prints are still prints. There are multiple copies of the same image. I'm not even sure if Shep considered them fine art himself seeing as how he would just paste some of them on walls for his street pieces. But there is no denying that pre-2000 prints are special.

[JErikR]

Question: Are any pre-2000 prints being sold at the Sand City show? If yes, and the show is called "Fine Art Prints," doesn't this imply that prints sold there are fine art? Sort of just sayin'....

[pennylesspig]

Question: Are any pre-2000 prints being sold at the Sand City show? If yes, and the show is called "Fine Art Prints," doesn't this imply that prints sold there are fine art? Sort of just sayin'....

No, there were no pre-2000 prints. The only prints being sold are large format prints.

[JErikR]

Question: Are any pre-2000 prints being sold at the Sand City show? If yes, and the show is called "Fine Art Prints," doesn't this imply that prints sold there are fine art? Sort of just sayin'....

No, there were no pre-2000 prints. The only prints being sold are large format prints.

Drats. Well there goes that theory.....

[penfold]

Just don't expect them to appreciate in value.

Out of interest, why such astronomical prices on shepardfaireyprints.com ?

[Wheels]

Just don't expect them to appreciate in value.

Out of interest, why such astronomical prices on shepardfaireyprints.com ?

Ignore SFPrints.com. When I started collecting about a year ago, the first print I searched out was Shep's Malcolm X Red from '06. I first found it at SFPrints.com...for $800! Happy to say that I found this forum about 10 minutes later and within a week I'd found a matching set of Malcolm X Red/Green/Orange that I purchased from a forum member for $400. That's all three, matching numbers, $400 vs one from SFPrints.com for $800.

I think that site's like a venus fly trap for new collectors. They've got a nice name and a glossy site, but I'll go out on a limb and say that the only sales they make are off people who don't know any better. You're in the right place if you appreciate Sheps work.

[penfold]

Just don't expect them to appreciate in value.

Out of interest, why such astronomical prices on shepardfaireyprints.com ?

Ignore SFPrints.com. When I started collecting about a year ago, the first print I searched out was Shep's Malcolm X Red from '06. I first found it at SFPrints.com...for $800! Happy to say that I found this forum about 10 minutes later and within a week I'd found a matching set of Malcolm X Red/Green/Orange that I purchased from a forum member for $400. That's all three, matching numbers, $400 vs one from SFPrints.com for $800.

I think that site's like a venus fly trap for new collectors. They've got a nice name and a glossy site, but I'll go out on a limb and say that the only sales they make are off people who don't know any better. You're in the right place if you appreciate Sheps work.

Cool, thanks for that. And I certainly do, otherwise I'd be on a general street art/graff forum. He really strikes a chord with me. When I watched Exit Through the gift shop I was racking my brains to work out where I'd seen the Obey logo before (I'm English). I thought somebody must have used it as an avatar on a different forum, but a bit of Wiki research reminded me it was a goal to tag them on Tony Hawk's 2 back in 2000 or something. I was intrigued by it then but came to the conclusion it was just a graphic in a similar vein to the spoof advertising on GTA games. Imagine how annoyed with myself I am that I didn't look it up on the internet in the year 2000 lol. Still, here I am