AP - Artist Proof -SF
AP - Artist Proof -SF
Gday guys,
Im new to the forum but not to Sheps works and am an passionate amateur poster collector. I have some really nice ones but not too many - my favorite is Kolinale Tentoonstelling - see my avatar (it's just amazing) and 100 years old this year. If anyone is interested in this type of old european/amercian/australian poster work , let have a chat on the side!
Thats my intro but today my question relates to AP's issued by our old mate Shep. What a champion Shep is. Regarding AP's, my questions follow:
1. Is there a fixed number of AP's per print run, or a fixed % (say 5%), or are these truly AP's that the great man uses during the print run? Anyone know?
2. What stops someone getting an unsigned work, signed by Shep at a public signing, and then sticking an AP in pencil on the left hand side. I'd be spewing but unfortunately as we all know, flippers will do anything to exploit us fans.
3. Are Sheps AP's listed somewhere so we know the rarity. Like most of you, its a nice feeling to have a special edition, even though it gives the same visual pleasure as a normal print.
4. What about his works on wood - possibly I will put this in a different post/topic. Anyone have any experiecne. I have not seen one, but are there color distortions? What are the advantages - more robust? Are these sought after or is paper more desirable depsite its fragility.
Sorry for all the questions - and parital answers would be well receioced. Hope to comm with you guys etc
Rico (Aus but living in Jakarta)
Im new to the forum but not to Sheps works and am an passionate amateur poster collector. I have some really nice ones but not too many - my favorite is Kolinale Tentoonstelling - see my avatar (it's just amazing) and 100 years old this year. If anyone is interested in this type of old european/amercian/australian poster work , let have a chat on the side!
Thats my intro but today my question relates to AP's issued by our old mate Shep. What a champion Shep is. Regarding AP's, my questions follow:
1. Is there a fixed number of AP's per print run, or a fixed % (say 5%), or are these truly AP's that the great man uses during the print run? Anyone know?
2. What stops someone getting an unsigned work, signed by Shep at a public signing, and then sticking an AP in pencil on the left hand side. I'd be spewing but unfortunately as we all know, flippers will do anything to exploit us fans.
3. Are Sheps AP's listed somewhere so we know the rarity. Like most of you, its a nice feeling to have a special edition, even though it gives the same visual pleasure as a normal print.
4. What about his works on wood - possibly I will put this in a different post/topic. Anyone have any experiecne. I have not seen one, but are there color distortions? What are the advantages - more robust? Are these sought after or is paper more desirable depsite its fragility.
Sorry for all the questions - and parital answers would be well receioced. Hope to comm with you guys etc
Rico (Aus but living in Jakarta)
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
Hey Rico,
Welcome, I'll give some off-the-cuff answers. I'm sure some others can give more technically accurate answers:
1) Yes, the APs are true APs as part of the print run. I recall seeing folks talk about the exact AP number on here, so I'll let them confirm.
2) What the gang on here knows more than anything is Shep's signature has changed and evolved over the years. So if a print is backdated, so to speak (if it's a 1999 print, but signed by Shep in 2013) it's easy to tell. And then you would question the AP on it, if that were the case. Sometimes some prints left the studio unsigned, but it has been rare-ish. The print could still be legit, just the AP on it might not be. But it could be as well.
3) For prints on wood, there are two types to be aware of. There are standard prints on wood, that often have a weathered look to them. But it's just a straight print on wood. Then there are HPMs on wood, which have hand painted and collage elements. Generally speaking, prints on wood seem to cost more on the secondary market then regular prints.
Hope that helps to get the discussion started.
Welcome, I'll give some off-the-cuff answers. I'm sure some others can give more technically accurate answers:
1) Yes, the APs are true APs as part of the print run. I recall seeing folks talk about the exact AP number on here, so I'll let them confirm.
2) What the gang on here knows more than anything is Shep's signature has changed and evolved over the years. So if a print is backdated, so to speak (if it's a 1999 print, but signed by Shep in 2013) it's easy to tell. And then you would question the AP on it, if that were the case. Sometimes some prints left the studio unsigned, but it has been rare-ish. The print could still be legit, just the AP on it might not be. But it could be as well.
3) For prints on wood, there are two types to be aware of. There are standard prints on wood, that often have a weathered look to them. But it's just a straight print on wood. Then there are HPMs on wood, which have hand painted and collage elements. Generally speaking, prints on wood seem to cost more on the secondary market then regular prints.
Hope that helps to get the discussion started.
JErikR
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
Thanks very much for taking the time to answer mate - that gives me food for thought. Really appreciated and nice to have someone answer my forst post!! Cheers brew and love the avatar (although I was more Ace than Gene)
- unioneighteen
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Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
Also, on the wood prints, it's probably important to note they are very low runs which contributes to the price differential. I think generally speaking it was 2 +AP until 2012 (I think) when it jumped to 6 +AP per image.
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
I will add a note on APs. For some of the old prints, APs might be a variant meaning it is different from the regular run. Tank from 97 and Big Brother Collage are examples. Tank APs may have a color missing while some of the Big Brother Collages were hand finished. There are others to be certain.
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
Thanks JJ and Union. Helpful comments on both topics and make perfect sense.
JJ on AP's : I guess "not all AP's are created equal". From your comment JJ, some AP's are produced so Shep can test and try during the creative process; then yes these would def have more extrinsic value (as long as they were still nice to the eye) than a normal numbered print. However, if the AP is used to finish the print run (e.g. printed 460, used 450 and the last 10 were AP's just to use up the print run stock, for example) then I would argue they have no more value than a numbered print? Perhaps less even as there is only one "1/450" but possibly more than one AP (counter-intuitive). No biggie, just interested to hear what you 'Giants' think on the subject.
I guess, back to my original question, how many AP's does Shep do in a normal print run. Does anyone know or is it case by case??
To Union on wood prints: Do you know, does Shep pull these himself (?) as a nice one is available on wood numbered only 2/2. I'm keen but just need to know what a fair offer for such a print ?? Any help or suggestions are welcomed.
I have to say I am enjoying the forum and its killing a lot of my time!!
JJ on AP's : I guess "not all AP's are created equal". From your comment JJ, some AP's are produced so Shep can test and try during the creative process; then yes these would def have more extrinsic value (as long as they were still nice to the eye) than a normal numbered print. However, if the AP is used to finish the print run (e.g. printed 460, used 450 and the last 10 were AP's just to use up the print run stock, for example) then I would argue they have no more value than a numbered print? Perhaps less even as there is only one "1/450" but possibly more than one AP (counter-intuitive). No biggie, just interested to hear what you 'Giants' think on the subject.
I guess, back to my original question, how many AP's does Shep do in a normal print run. Does anyone know or is it case by case??
To Union on wood prints: Do you know, does Shep pull these himself (?) as a nice one is available on wood numbered only 2/2. I'm keen but just need to know what a fair offer for such a print ?? Any help or suggestions are welcomed.
I have to say I am enjoying the forum and its killing a lot of my time!!
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
For the variant APs, I think that is a thing of the past, Today's APs are part of the run and I agree that they are worth no more than a numbered print.
I've heard that the number of APs is around 10% of the run size for prints. Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
For the woods or prints the age of the piece will probably tell you if it is more likely that Shep pulled it. The older the piece the more likely. Price for a screenprint on wood is more dependent on image than anything else. Paul Watson on wood will draw a fraction of the interest or money that Peace Elephant would.
I've heard that the number of APs is around 10% of the run size for prints. Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
For the woods or prints the age of the piece will probably tell you if it is more likely that Shep pulled it. The older the piece the more likely. Price for a screenprint on wood is more dependent on image than anything else. Paul Watson on wood will draw a fraction of the interest or money that Peace Elephant would.
- unioneighteen
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Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
Agree.. also, prints on wood are generally considered fine art (maybe not by everyone, but probably by most) and the assumption is that he is involved at a higher level than with the paper editions. However he definitely relies on assistants for most of the 'fine art' process (collage, screens, touch-ups, etc) works on wood, metal and paper. Not sure about the canvas work.jjttdw wrote: For the woods or prints the age of the piece will probably tell you if it is more likely that Shep pulled it. The older the piece the more likely.
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
Thanks JJ. I think i've got my head around the AP's and wood prints now.
Is there a list anywhere of Sheps most popular pieces? Ebay is useless to get an idea of price/demand as some of the prices are ridiculous. I agree that Peace Elephant is a great piece (in gold and red); other contemporary favorites of mine include, New World Odor, Burmese Monk, and some of the 'clean' looking propaganda pieces, such as the recently released Chinese Soldiers.
Cheers to all
Is there a list anywhere of Sheps most popular pieces? Ebay is useless to get an idea of price/demand as some of the prices are ridiculous. I agree that Peace Elephant is a great piece (in gold and red); other contemporary favorites of mine include, New World Odor, Burmese Monk, and some of the 'clean' looking propaganda pieces, such as the recently released Chinese Soldiers.
Cheers to all
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
Just saw your comment - thanks also to Union.
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
Sorry - throw this out there - what would Peace Elephant on wood be worth - any comments? Cheers.
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
A whole lotta comments! I would say just the screen on wood at least 6k, the HPM on wood at least 10k.rico wrote:Sorry - throw this out there - what would Peace Elephant on wood be worth - any comments? Cheers.
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
Expressobeans is a good source for historical pricing. Of the ones you like New World Odor is the most expensive.rico wrote:Thanks JJ. I think i've got my head around the AP's and wood prints now.
Is there a list anywhere of Sheps most popular pieces? Ebay is useless to get an idea of price/demand as some of the prices are ridiculous. I agree that Peace Elephant is a great piece (in gold and red); other contemporary favorites of mine include, New World Odor, Burmese Monk, and some of the 'clean' looking propaganda pieces, such as the recently released Chinese Soldiers.
Cheers to all
http://www.expressobeans.com
As far as Peace Elephant on wood, I'd think it would go for 6-8k. That is if you could pry it from the owner's hands.
Re: AP - Artist Proof -SF
Thanks for the recommendation re: expressobeans - exactly what I was after. Appreciate all the comments guys - Cheers Rico