Peace Mujer - Damaged Print or Not?

[ptd.gwb]

hey guys,

just wanted your opinion on this. i bid successfully on a peace mujer print on ebay, and received it the other day. according to the seller, this print was in mint condition. after unrolling to inspect it, i noticed this "scratch" that ran across the lower half of the print. it is not creased in any way, but it seems like something had made a scratch over the in surface, and i have a feeling it was either from the edge of the print itself when it was rolled inside the tube, or from the edge of the larger piece of poster paper that it was rolled in (he didn't use butcher paper, but this heavyish stock poster paper). please see the images attached below.

i have several questions.

a) should i even be concerned about this- is this a normal occurrence when you receive prints.

b) was my hypothesis about what caused this scratch correct, have you guys ever seen a similar thing happen?

c) any possible ways to fix it or decrease its noticeability? i could consider brushing the print with a drafter's brush or the like to decrease the contrast between the "scratched" part and the non scratched part.

b)and perhaps the most important, is this print still considered "mint" or should i consider filing a claim to get a partial refund? i mean, this thing wasn't cheap, and the seller did not mention this "scratch" in the listing (even though upon inspecting the photo in the listing, i notice it now:(

i mean, it's not terrible and i only notice it under certain lighting conditions and i could live with it. just wondering what you guys thought. many thanks.

image 1:


image 2: detail


image 3: how it came in the roll (notice how it was rolled within this larger poster paper and how the edges contacts the print)


image 4: original image on ebay (notice the faint scratch line in the photo)

[Gigantico]

Damaged, IMO.

[extremeimages77]

refund

[PDC]

If you want to keep the print, I would ask for a partial refund. This print has been hard to come by lately.
It will look nice framed.

If you decide to resell some day, you'll have to note the damage. So, take that into consideration.

[circa77]

that scratch would bug me every time i looked at it. up to you, but i'd ask for a partial refund (about 30%) or send it back for a full refund.

[whyhoo]

that scratch would bug me every time i looked at it. up to you, but i'd ask for a partial refund (about 30%) or send it back for a full refund.

same here.. not mint!

[extremeimages77]

pricey print id return it...others will come up

[ptd.gwb]

thanks for all your comments guys! as circa77 said, i think i will notice it every time i look at it, i'm that type of person. so i decided to go ahead and initiate a claim and get a full refund. what a downer, my new frame for it from AF is already on its way. just have to keep my eye out for another one out there, i'll keep you guys posted.

[ptd.gwb]

Update guys- This is turning into a real tooth and nail fight. Anyone's gone through a similar thing, and if so, any tips? Are chances pretty good that one will usually get a refund in these cases?

Correspondence so far on the PP dispute center (identities have been changed to X and Y)

From Me:

Hello, I was very excited to have received the Peace Mujer print, but to my disappointment, there is actually a very noticeable horizontal scratch across the surface that runs along the entire width of the lower half of the print. I've consulted several collectors of these posters and showed them photographic evidence, and they all agree that this is considered damage to the print and the item is definitely not in "mint condition", as it was described in the auction. I'm afraid I have no choice but to initiate a dispute. I would like to send the poster back and get a full refund for the item. Thanks.

From Mr. Y

I take a lot of pride in selling my items on Ebay which would explain my 100% feedbacks. My feedbacks are great compliments on my products and my excellent packaging. I'm a very detailed orientated person and I make sure that whatever I'm selling is accurately described. The print that Mr. X is saying that was damaged left my house in mint condition. Mr. X was even offered insurance and he declined it. I have the pictures of the print in the condition that it left my house. I made sure that it was packed well. I slip sheeted the print with an over size poster so that it did not move around in the sturdy 4 inch diameter tube. Then I placed the tube in a sturdy box. Mr. X had left a message on when I would be sending the print out and I got back to him promptly and he left another message saying thanks. I do not understand why he would not leave a message with me first if he received a damaged print. But instead he waited 6 days while he had this print and files a dispute instead of contacting me. Personally, if I received an item that I was not happy with I would contact the person immediately and let them know that I'm not satisfied. And also, if I'm paying $275 for a print I would of had it insured. These valuable silk screen prints are very fragile and any misuse will mark up the print. I can not be held responsible for any damage after the print leaves my house. Thank you.

My latest reply:

I am standing firm on my claim that the print was in a defective condition, and not in a "mint" condition as the auction had described, before it left Mr. Y's possession. Upon receiving the print and noticing the mark, I went back to the seller's photo of the print on the original ebay listing, and noticed a very faint line exactly in the location of said damage- which indicates that it was already there before he sent it. The photo in the listing was zoomed out to an extent that it would have been difficult to notice the mark had I not been told it was there. The fact that there was no mention or description whatsoever of the noticeable mark or closer up photos in the listing and instead purporting it to be "mint" meant that Mr. Y, whether intentionally or unintentionally, had misled me into thinking that this was a print in "mint" condition, which in fact, was not. I do have photographic evidence to back this up which can be used to cross reference the photos provided in the original ebay listing. I would still very much like to settle this case by sending this print back to Mr. Y for a full refund. If we fail to settle, then I will have no other choice that to escalate this into a claim.Thanks.

[circa77]

I think you've got a strong case. Good luck!

[illyanadmc]

even though this is obviously not a case of the print being damaged during shipping, you should still ALWAYS buy insurance!! some people on ebay have no idea how to pack a print (and even well-packed prints can get trashed).

[Bonesy]

If the buyer declines insurance and the print dosnet get there of is damaged, they still have a claim even if they didnt buy insurance. It dosent matter if the ebay listing says "not rsponsible for lost or damaged blah blah blah". As a seller I always include insurance.

[illyanadmc]

If the buyer declines insurance and the print dosnet get there of is damaged, they still have a claim even if they didnt buy insurance. It dosent matter if the ebay listing says "not rsponsible for lost or damaged blah blah blah". As a seller I always include insurance.

i don't know if this is in response to what i wrote, but i wasn't trying to imply that he had no case. i was just giving him some advice for the future.

[Bonesy]

I was just making a general statement that even if the buyer dosent purchase insurance that they are covered under Paypal protection (so sellers should always insure items and charge appropriately).

[admonkey]

I agree with Bonesy. Insurance is more for the protection of the seller than for the buyer. Always, always, always include insurance.

[ptd.gwb]

So the latest,

After showing him my photographic proof, the seller of the damaged print is being a bit more reasonable and is willing to offer me a full refund (minus shipping) once i send it back. I will include insurance, delivery confirmation, tracking. Is it typical protocol that the seller will pays the buyer the refund only after the seller receives it?

I am just concerned what if he doesn't follow through with his promise. I will keep the dispute open until I receive the refund, and escalate into a claim if i don't. i will also take photos of the print before i send it back to show the condition it was in before it left my possession. Any other precautions i should take before i send this thing back?

Thanks for all your input guys, it's all very much appreciated. If i could i'd buy y'all a round of drinks, or two. hopefully i am close to a resolution.

[admonkey]

Don't use "delivery confirmation," use "signature confirmation."

[PDC]

You have a valid dispute, although, you should always try to resolve it with the seller first. He is rightfully defending himself at this point.

[ptd.gwb]

So i will be sending back the print, and upon him receiving the print in satisfactory condition, i will be provided a refund. regarding the insurance, i was wondering what exactly does it provide me or the the receiver of the package if something does happen to it? it's a little confusing to me, since the roles are reversed now, where the sender is actually the buyer not the seller.

regarding PDC's comment, yea, a part of me wishes i had contacted the seller first, but i wanted all the conversations "on record" in case he tried to pull something funny between our communication and me making a dispute on PP... like changing his ebay listing or something. actually i've never sold anything before so i don't even know if that's possible...

[jwaddle]

... you should always try to resolve it with the seller first.

Communicating with the seller is the best place to start. The buyer might also take the responsibility to educate self first. Some of the questions asked by the buyer would have been better asked and answered prior to buying. Oh, and by the way ALWAYS INSURE