KAWS

[djsp]

Yeah, I get what you guys are saying, but I stand by what I said. How are you quantifying that? This person was "born" an artist? Who says? Well in general, it comes down to what the majority and/or academics/style makers say is good. That's it really. Otherwise anyone that puts pen to paper is an artist. We are all born with the ability to create.

That's a personal view of what it is to be an artist. I don't believe that an artist is defined by going to art school or having had a career using art, but rather being responsible for a work's creation.

it's not my personal view of what it is to be an artist… you either are an artist or you're not, you don't just wake up one day and say "i think i'm going to be an artist today" nor can you buy your way into being one. you don't go to art school to become an artist, you go to become a better one.

This is such an ignorant statement. Why can't a person wake up and say they want to be an artist? I know plenty of people that did not start creating art until they were in their 40's or even later.

That's fine, but I am with Frib on this one. I could be an artist today too if I want, but how good of an artist would I be? That is the real question.

I think he is saying it is not a decision. It's just inside of you. A part of you.

correct. being an artist is not a career decision. you can make a career out of being an one but it's not something you decide one day to be... it's either in your or it's not.

[G-Men]

these went back up for sale

[smartussi]

I didnt dare leave my 2-year old son alone with a Spongbob print sitting in front of him, he would have hugged it.

Enjoy Bonesy.

My threee year old daughter asks me at least once a week if she can open the flat file and see Spongebob (our yellow KawsBob)

[whyhoo]

I didnt dare leave my 2-year old son alone with a Spongbob print sitting in front of him, he would have hugged it.

Enjoy Bonesy.

My threee year old daughter asks me at least once a week if she can open the flat file and see Spongebob (our yellow KawsBob)

so awesome! start em young!

these went back up for sale

did you pick up another one? hook a brotha up sister!

[jwoods103]

when did they go back up?

[havana]

Salvador Dali got kicked out of art school and never finished his studies. Pierre-Auguste Renoir was a shoe tailor and a dressmaker before an artist. Leonardo Da Vinci was not just an artist, he was a scientist, a musician, an architect and a mathematician. Henri Rousseau served in the French army and worked as a toll collector. At the age of 40 he retired to paint. He had no art schooling. Henri Matisse got a degree in law before he studied art. And so on...

Of course Fribhey will reply that MBW is nowhere near any of these, but that is not the point. The point is you said you cannot become an artist without going to art school or whatever the sweeping statement he said before, I can't remember is obviously flawed!

[DunDun]

when did they go back up?

Looks like they went back up about three hours ago.

[vvk]

these went back up for sale

what the hell?
when? how? why?

did they make more the 100?

they they only sell 50 yesterday and 50 today?

[conartstudio]

The point is you said you cannot become an artist without going to art school or whatever the sweeping statement he said before, I can't remember is obviously flawed!

You obviously didn't even bother reading what i said (as proof with your "or whatever the sweeping statement he said" comment). if you had, you could have saved the time you spent witing your own sweeping statement.

i NEVER at any point said you cannot become an artist without going to art school... it was QKocur that said he didn't define an artist on whether or not they went to art school and i don't either. i never said anything about going to art school and being an artist were mutually exclusive. in fact, i said that you don't go to school to become an artist, you go to become a BETTER artist... the whole comment about art school had to do with KAWS' background, nothing more, nothing less. my personal opinion, which i also mentioned but you decided to skip over, is that you don't "become" an artist, you are either one or you aren't. it's something that's a part of you. MBW is doing what he's doing because that's what Banksy told him to do, he's not doing it because it's a part of who he is... if anything i would consider MBW a film maker, not a fine artist.

[vvk]

if anything i would consider MBW a film maker, not a fine artist.

if anything i would consider MBW a keen business man! from what i read... he came to this country with nothing and was put in a postition where he had to grow up very quickly ( father had passed ) .. he and his siblings were able to start and grow a business that made them some money and support themselves then he found a new business (art) that he could make even more money with and also acquire fame @ the same time..

but im starting to get off topic , the real topic is about Patrick and spongebob right???
'my vote is for patrick, hes funny , here is some triva for you ... what does the show spongebob square pants and the show "coach" have in common ... hint.. hes tall and pink

[conartstudio]

but im starting to get off topic , the real topic is about Patrick and spongebob right???
'my vote is for patrick, hes funny , here is some triva for you ... what does the show spongebob square pants and the show "coach" have in common ... hint.. hes tall and pink

why is Spongebob and Patrick getting all the love? what about Squidward, Mr. Krabs, Gary and Sandy?

[QKocur]

but im starting to get off topic , the real topic is about Patrick and spongebob right???
'my vote is for patrick, hes funny , here is some triva for you ... what does the show spongebob square pants and the show "coach" have in common ... hint.. hes tall and pink

why is Spongebob and Patrick getting all the love? what about Squidward, Mr. Krabs, Gary and Sandy?

Gary all the way!!

[havana]

The point is you said you cannot become an artist without going to art school or whatever the sweeping statement he said before, I can't remember is obviously flawed!

You obviously didn't even bother reading what i said (as proof with your "or whatever the sweeping statement he said" comment). if you had, you could have saved the time you spent witing your own sweeping statement.

i NEVER at any point said you cannot become an artist without going to art school... it was QKocur that said he didn't define an artist on whether or not they went to art school and i don't either. i never said anything about going to art school and being an artist were mutually exclusive. in fact, i said that you don't go to school to become an artist, you go to become a BETTER artist... the whole comment about art school had to do with KAWS' background, nothing more, nothing less. my personal opinion, which i also mentioned but you decided to skip over, is that you don't "become" an artist, you are either one or you aren't. it's something that's a part of you. MBW is doing what he's doing because that's what Banksy told him to do, he's not doing it because it's a part of who he is... if anything i would consider MBW a film maker, not a fine artist.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

[vvk]

anyone have pics???

[DunDun]

anyone have pics???

I don't think anyone wants to take it out of the wrapping. I'm not until it's going in a frame. It's wrapped in a form of wax paper.

[spagucci1]

anyone have pics???

I don't think anyone wants to take it out of the wrapping. I'm not until it's going in a frame. It's wrapped in a form of wax paper.

Make sure to share pictures when you fame that badboy up! Congrats on scoring one G!

[DunDun]

anyone have pics???

I don't think anyone wants to take it out of the wrapping. I'm not until it's going in a frame. It's wrapped in a form of wax paper.

Make sure to share pictures when you fame that badboy up! Congrats on scoring one G!

I'll be honest. Not my favorite image, but I already have the other one and it's kinda lonely. Might be a while before I frame this one though as I have some huge expenses coming up.

[mose]

I couldnt disagree more....

I actually really like it too, but lets be honest. If it wasn't for the name this kinda work would be ripped apart.

I read the updates in this thread often (as a KAWS outsider), the first Spongebob print didn't make sense to me... it's SO close to the everyday everywhere mega merchandising that is SPONGEBOB that I thought the price was silly... and I didn't understand the huge positive response. I like it when he takes some pop culture giants and makes them his own (like the huge Simpsons painting I've seen, for example), but the standard Spongebob, with standard colors, but KAWS Xs over the eyes seemed like it wasn't enough. I understand that he kills it, technically, painting these images so precisely would be very very difficult. I'm not trying to say anything against his skill or his fans, more power to him and you all. I guess I thought it'd be nice to have a little bit of the other side of the conversation to see what you thought of my viewpoint... and I think it's about time for me to pick up his monograph and soak it in.

If it wasn't for the name this kinda work would be ripped apart.

and you can say that about EVERY artist... there isn't a day that goes by that i don't hear that about shepard, or banksy or hirst, or warhol, or basquiat or haring, etc.

of course who's making the art is important.

You COULD say that about every artist, but every artist isn't taking the image of a popular cartoon and replacing the eyes with Xs at 1200 a pop. Its not that I mind or not understand names drive demand, but it was in response to responses about mint's comment. On a side note, I'm curious as to how you can rail against MBW, but not have an issue with this.

Given that I’m on spring break and my second child isn’t here quite yet, I figure I’ll wade in to this debate a bit and give my 2 cents.

I’ll start by saying this is going to be long-winded and probably pretty dull, so if you aren’t up for it, back out
now. But, if you are up for it I hope to accomplish the following:

1. Lay out a concept of mine about art appreciation that governs my reactions and, I believe, the reactions others have toward various artists. This concept directly addresses things like mr Revs statement ‘If it wasn’t for the name this kinda work would be ripped apart.”

2. Discuss my take on KAWS and the belief that his current work represents the pinnacle of his career. Further, this will address DunDun’s framing of KAWS work in terms of Pop Art and the concept of ‘tounge-in-cheek’.

3. Compare and contrast KAWS and MBW in terms of my above-mentioned concept of art appreciation, the above-mentioned review of KAWS’ body of work, and the difference between painting and Painting as set forth by acclaimed curator Franceso Bonami.


With regard to art and artists appreciation, I have found that my own personal approach neatly splits in to three categories – faith, suspension of disbelief, and rejection. I’ll start with rejection, as it is probably the easiest to grasp. Rejection of an artwork or artist is the result of indifference of (non)reaction coupled with depth-refusal. For example, Andy Warhol once famously stated, “"If you want to know all about Andy Warhol, just look at the surface of my paintings and films and me, and there I am. There's nothing behind it." If you, as an art observer, take this statement at face value, than you are engaging in a rejective artistic interpretation. You are choosing to deny the existence of depth, of artistic thought and/or insight, and are instead judging a work solely by its surface characteristics, its appearance if you will. You choose to void context and refuse its contemplation. As will be discussed later, you choose to view it as some painting and not a Painting.

This is not a bad or lesser approach in any way, shape or form. I return to a favorite quote again, as I do not believe it has been bettered,

“The creative act is not performed by the artist alone; the spectator brings the work in contact with the external world by deciphering and interpreting its inner qualifications and thus adds his contribution to the creative act.” – Marcel Duchamp

Art is ‘finished’ by the observer, leaving the validity of the artwork in their minds, with their knowledge, their biases, and their personal context adding to an alchemical reaction that either will, or will not, turn base materials in to Art(or, again, some painting in to Painting). Again, this will be explored further in a little bit.

The second category to be addressed is likely the most difficult – suspension of disbelief. A simple dictionary definition of this term would be:

Suspension of Disbelief(phr) a willingness to suspend one's critical faculties and believe the unbelievable; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment

And I do rather enjoy Samuel Taylor Coleridge’s pretty term for it, “poetic faith,” though I do recognize that any adjective applied to faith debases its meaning. Engaging in art with suspension of disbelief allows one to enjoy that which, on closer review, would likely not pass muster due to various failings of either artwork, artist, or, in a sense, the observer himself. It eases the critical eye, stands down the cognitive guards, and allows the psycho-emotional to be stimulated on a lower, baser plane than would be reached when faith is present. For example, I personally view the work of Shepard Fairey via the avenue of suspension of disbelief. I enjoy his work like I enjoy Coca Cola. It makes me feel good but provides me little in the way of sustenance and does not provide anything toward my Maslow need for self-actualization. And you know what? That’s completely fine. I am not looking for anything deeper in Fairey’s work, not spelunking the infamous vagbutt if you will, because my context tells me there’s nothing there(for me). Going further would just spoil the enjoyment I allow myself to experience with Fairey’s work, so I choose not to, enjoying the lead and not frustrated because there just is no turning it to gold.

The third, and final, category is by far the hardest to convey in words as it is so personal, so unique to each individual, that it can really only be painted out in very broad strokes. That is the hard-to-grasp nature of faith. Though clichéd, I think it is again important to start with the dictionary definition:

Faith noun \ˈfāth\
1
a: allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions
2
a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
3
: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially: a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

For this discussion, of the many interrelated definitions of faith, I believe, “firm belief in something for which there is no proof,” offers the best starting point. Faith in an artist is the unencumbered embracement of him in much the same way the so-called ‘faithful’ grasp modern god figures. It is the power of belief in something greater than yourself, a belief that can, at its summit, reverberate spiritually but even at its base is always palpable. A belief in the existence of a plan, of a logic and reasoning, for which the lack of proof is not a refutation but rather an invitation; an invitation to explore, to interpret, to learn, to grow, to be, “What a man can be.”

It is these varied categories of art/artist appreciation that provide an excellent background for discussion of Rev’s statement, “‘If it wasn’t for the name this kinda work would be ripped apart.” This statement is much more complex than it appears on its face, as Rev’s use of ‘kinda work’ as opposed to just ‘work’ adds several important nuances. Foremost, through the use of kinda’ it acknowledges that artwork and artist are inextricably intertwine. More forcefully, it is my contention that the name and the artwork can not be artificially separated in any way, shape or form because they, together and inseparable, form the input for the observer’s Duchampian completion. The artist and the artwork, inseparable, alchemically react with the observer’s internal context(which is already in a state where it is either primed with prior artist knowledge or is a tabula rasa), determining which path of appreciation will be followed. But, how would we anticipate the results of reactions where the separation between artwork and artist is not artificial but rather a function of the observer’s lacking that profound piece of background information? I do believe that faith would be off the table do to the extreme emotional investment required to experience that path, as I do no believe an information-poor internal context would be conducive to engendering such capital. Therefore, it is my belief that we would see an observer population vacillate between rejection and suspension of disbelief, with Rev’s statement about work, ‘ripped apart,’ supporting a trend toward rejection.

Having wrapped the first 1/3 of this discussion, it is time to move on to my own personal interpretation of KAWS work. I will begin by saying that I have faith in KAWS as an artist, though it is more at the base level than summit. I think it will be interesting to share the following post I made on the Banksy forum in late-2008. It is a review of KAWS breakthrough fine art show at Gering & Lopez(see: http://www.nitrolicious.com/blog/2008/1 ... reception/ ).

“Initially, I thought that the colorway heads were a self-indulgent mess. Later, I began to appreciate them as a skewering of the rabid collector mindset(especially toy/print collectors). They are a multi-colored tribute to the irrational desire to collect 'em all in order to make oneself special and to be closer to the artist(in this case, to almost literally get inside his head). I find them to be a recognition by KAWS of the obsessiveness, the pathology, that has allowed him to become 'big in Japan'.

Overall, I think the other recent works - the Smurfs and Spongebobs - are by far his best stuff to date. He is using familiar, 'innocent' icons to convey the current emotional states of the adult world. This is a time of confusion, fear, anxiety, irrational behavior, etc. all poignantly displayed via the expressional faces, and KAWS' trademark crossed eyes, of childhood legends.

I think the most significant feature, the really subversive element of KAWS newest work, is that the children's icons, now manipulated, refuse to provide the escape-from-reality, the desired regression to more carefree times, the wanting rest from the burden of carrying the weight of the world, that often fuels adult consumption of children's cartoons. As the world spirals toward madness, KAWS is giving us no quarter.

Read more: http://banksyforum.proboards.com/index. ... z1KHH0B6w6”

You can literally read my personal transition from suspension of disbelief to faith above.

Now, I’d like to quote DunDun’s well-written interpretation of KAWS body of work:

Nice viewpoint there Pat. What I see in KAWS, besides his technical skill is that he's the ANTI-WARHOL. He actually handpaints everything and I view his work as a direct response to the Pop-art movement. Even though he often uses the same imagery as Pop artists incorporate, it's more of rejection of them than it's an acceptance/influence. His work questions what makes an Icon iconic and "dissects" these memes. I think he's saying that in this day and age of ubiquitous advertising that these "icons" should NOT be made into art and championed as great work. It's very tongue in cheek. The X's are simple, and I see his work as being more influenced by minimalists and modernists than anything else. These movements were created as a rejection of the traditional art movements that dominated art for centuries and I see his work as the same with the "Pop" art that's still prevalent today. To pass of his work as simple X's on a face is missing the point COMPLETELY IMO.

This is what I like about art. It means something completely different to everyone. Maybe I'm looking into his work too deeply, but that's the beauty of art.

Personally, I like DunDun’s framing of KAWS work in terms of Pop Art but do reject his assertion that the current work is ‘tongue in cheek’. I find the current work, if anything, disconcerting and almost aggressive in its subversiveness. Expanding on my show review quoted above, KAWS best work teases with our collective, desired carefree regression by presenting iconic cartoon characters. In a world in the midst of a general debasement of human worth, who doesn’t want to curl up and mentally reconnect with our innocent, ignorant youthful selves? But, after bring us to the edge of mental escape KAWS cruelly throws us to the precipice of despair with those dead eyes and empty expressions. In doing so, I find KAWS has much in common with Mark Rothko, who famously stated, “"I'm not an abstractionist. I'm not interested in the relationship of color or form or anything else. I'm interested only in expressing basic human emotions: tragedy, ecstasy, doom, and so on."” Sounds about right.

And I say KAWS best work does this as it is his most subtle work that I find to be the best. The lesser the distortion, the subtler the infiltration, the greater horror I see. Now, I do find much of the more blatantly emotional works, such the harried/stressed Spongebobs dripping with tension, to be excellent as well. However, they are, in a way, too easy. I look at them and I can readily see them as the mirror they are; reflecting my ever diminishing self back. Dead eyes meet deadening eyes. But that isn’t doom, and doom is where KAWS is at his best.

Now that I’ve less-than-satisfactorily addressed the second topic on my list, it’s time to address the KAWS vs. MBW debate, which I will frame in terms of Francesco Bonami’s differentiation of ‘painting’ and ‘Painting’ and my own three-pathed view of art appreciation.

I will quote Bonami’s essay included in the catalogue for Rudolf Stingel excellent 2007 retrospective:

“What makes a painting a ‘Painting’? This question has yet to be answered by art historians, critics, or artists….

To paint is to act. Yet this action does not necessarily produce a painting…What makes a Painting is the capacity of the artist to create either a performance that will be possible to look at forever or to create a void that will blend with the passing of time. This ability to grasp and harness time holds the keys to creating a Painting.

Although I have stated that painting can be an action, it must also be an observation. The mere act of painting does not create a Painting but simply some painting. But if the action of painting is used as a lens to observe reality to create another reality, then we have a Painting. Why? Because observation creates distance, as well as the accompanying threshold that the viewers needs and wants in order to cross over to accept the difference between reality and art. This observation, combined with an understanding of time, moves a painting from a simple painting to a Painting.”

I believe Bonami’s statements and my own differentiation between modes of artistic appreciation dovetail nicely. Both highlight thresholds that must be crossed over by the viewer in order for acceptance to occur. In such, both accept the Duchampian completion principal and primacy of the observer, and their internal context, in the art appreciation process.

Extending that, the difference between KAWS and MBW’s work can simply be broken down to a comparison of how many of each observers’ thresholds they have crossed. As stated above, for me KAWS has successfully crossed the threshold between rejection and suspension of disbelief and the threshold between suspension of disbelief and faith. As a result, he and his work are believed in, explored, interpreted, and assist in my own personal quest toward self-actualization. MBW, on the other hand, has not crossed any thresholds and is therefore viewed with a rejective artistic interpretation. As a result, contemplation of MBW’s work is minimal, contextual information is minimized, and it ends up being only so much painting.


All in all, I am rather disappointed by my inability to really flesh out my ideas here. It has been a while since I’ve taken time to write, and I am sick as a dog, so hopefully I’ll revise over the next few days as I feel better. For those that took the time to read, thanks and I hope I provided some food for thought.

[whyhoo]

i was about to read that post, but then decided not to unless 'vagbutt' was mentioned. you sir, have delivered!!!

[Solar]

Epic KAWS dissertation.

In for later.

[wiredbeans]

thanks mose for taking this time. off I go to chew a bit.
i found this especially interesting:
"To paint is to act. Yet this action does not necessarily produce a painting…What makes a Painting is the capacity of the artist to create either a performance that will be possible to look at forever or to create a void that will blend with the passing of time. This ability to grasp and harness time holds the keys to creating a Painting.

Although I have stated that painting can be an action, it must also be an observation. The mere act of painting does not create a Painting but simply some painting. But if the action of painting is used as a lens to observe reality to create another reality, then we have a Painting. Why? Because observation creates distance, as well as the accompanying threshold that the viewers needs and wants in order to cross over to accept the difference between reality and art. This observation, combined with an understanding of time, moves a painting from a simple painting to a Painting.”

FEEL BETTER!

[QKocur]

Mose that was excellent, thanks for taking the time to write all that out. (BTW I was the “If it wasn’t for the name this kinda work would be ripped apart.” guy) I admit that it is much more than a name, its a history.

I agree with everything you have to say for the most part, and think your analysis of the quiet horror in the kawsbobs is brilliant. But I have to ask if MBW through constant repetition of creating rejective work doesn't eventually cross a threshold? I ask because for two years I didn't care about him at all or his work. I was able to easily write off each individual piece as cr@p and move on. But after being constantly bombarded with the same regurgitated over cliched almost sickening uber pop images it started to have a cohesion in it for me. I view KAWS and MBW as two sides of the same coin, though its still questionable to me if MBW intends it and the idiocy of his character is a performance, but they both speak of pop culture icons is disgustifying ways for me. One subtle and refined, one over indulgent and (intentionally?) messy, but both make me question the way I view pop in the context of my life and art.

I appreciate your extremely well 'fleshed out' thesis despite your own disappointment in it, and I apologize I don't have the patience to replicate that level of craft into my own ideas, but there you go. Hope you feel better soon.

[mose]

Qkocur, I think you are absolutely on to something with regard to MBW and rejection.

Personally, I have found several artists that I had thought I had rejected, Cy Twombly and Robert Gober being two key examples, that ended up in the extreme faith group after several years. I think the difference between them and someone like MBW, for me, was that their 'rejection' wasn't the result of indifference but had a substantial emotional component(and therefore wasn't a true rejection as outlined above). Perhaps it was an embryonic form of faith, the ugly chrysalis before the beautiful butterfly? Or maybe even just some stop where my view of the artist rested until my internal context developed further and I made a choice?

I don't know, but I've always been fascinated by how and why it happened. It always made me think of how close hate and love can be.

[jak88]

Mose, that was an excellent analysis truly.

Re MBW ... I guess I'm just a simplistic idiot ... I see him as an art-world version of today's empty, mind-numbing commercialism and marketing. And my reaction continues to be exactly how I react to the constant bombardment of advertisements for [INSERT whatever crepe product you like ... erectile dysfunction, Velveeta cheese, perfume, sell us your gold, etc).

For me, he is art spam.

In fact, that should be his name ... Art Spam.

[QKocur]

I too had a similar reaction towards Cy Twombly. For me the rejection was because I didn't initially 'get' what was going on in the art, why it had been created the way it was until it developed into an understanding. The chrysalis example is perfect. With MBW I got the why in regards to the work, at least assumed I did, but couldn't 'get' what was going on in everyone else's minds in regards to the way they were viewing the work. Why it just didn't eventually go away since it was so obviously offensive to my art senses. But because it didn't go away it was forced upon me to consider it... I thought perhaps it takes the 'so bad its ...' route while making light of being offensive to so many in the art appreciation community along the way... Which makes me question quite a bit actually...

jak88: I'd like to believe that, but the art you'd buy at home decor places or at Urban Outfitters is truly Art Spam... to me there does feel like there is something more about MBW work than that... more is a poor choice of word really, but something else at least...

Sorry about the detour into he who disgusts, but I just saw a polar opposite style, but similar ultimate message, relation. Anyway, enough about him, please continue with the solely KAWS based discussion.